Is GPS lock required for MC to work?

[dasams]

I picked up my MC today and set it up by a window for the initial boot and gps lock.  Everything worked and, once complete, I unplugged the MC and moved it over to my router which is not adjacent to a window.  I've rebooted but it won't come back on.  Leaving it by a window is not an option as I'm not about to hurdle an ethernet cable in perpetuity.  Is the gps lock required for the MC to boot?  Certainly this can't be required as I can't believe that everyone has their's set-up by a window.  Suggestions?  thanks, dave

[i3rown...]

It is very much a requirement, and "near" a window will work... 

[dasams]

"It is very much a requirement, and "near" a window will work..."

After a reboot, the MC is working again and the gps and G3 lights are bright green.  It is sitting under my desk no where near a window but what the heck!  One thing I learned which I'll repeat for first timers is to be sure you have a 2-3 ft space between the MC and your router.  Otherwise, neither will work.  dave

[thively]

I set this up at work in a cubical nowhere near a window, in the center of the office building (1 story.)  And at home I have this set up in my garage, not near a window.

So unless you have a metal roof, you're probably likely to get a GPS lock indoors, especially in a wood frame structure.

I know they suggest puting it near a window, and that will obviously help or be necessary in some cases.  But my microcell is able to get a GPS lock just as easily as my iPhone can indoors.

[thively]

It's worth noting that there is an "external GPS antenna" connector on the back of the microcell.  I assume you can pick up a relatively standard external GPS antenna off of ebay.  I have one for one of my car GPS units that I may try just to see if it works, though I don't seem to need it.

[madams1000]

FWIW.   My MC is on the top shelf of a closet in the center of a one story wood frame house,  there is a drywall ceiling, 10" of blown insulation, and a roof with plywood decking and ashpalt shingles between the MC and a clear sky view ( I have about 100 degrees of clear sky view above the roof.  i.e. trees, buildings, houses, blocking ~40 degrees of horizon in all directions). 

Point being, the MC is nowhere near a window.  I realiably get GPS lock in 5-10 minutes.    I get simliar results with my Garmin 2720 and Garmin Aviation 696

Moral of story, real world tests/observations often differ from theory.

This post is worth exaclty $0.02

[19Baldman54]

Can you tell me what kind of external GPS connection is on the back of the Microcell?  Thanks

[d00mz]

I believe it is an MMCX connector.

Perhaps someone here can snap a photo of the back of their device for you.

[AnClar]

When I set my MCell up the other day, I also worried that I wouldn't be able to get a GPS lock.  My house sits in a depression surrounded by trees, and the only way I was able to get my satellite radio to work was to roof-mount an antenna.  I figured what the heck, I'd try anyways with the MCell and see what happened.  My MCell sits under a desk and one full drywall away from the nearest window.  In spite of the limitations, the MCell did get a good GPS lock so whatever they're using for a GPS receiver, it seems to be good.

[19Baldman54]

Just trying to prepare for the release for northern WI. Whenever that will be. Trying to get things in advance to make sure it will work   Thanks

[thively]

There's a good picture of the back of the microcell here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3626/att-3g-microcell-a-comprehensive-exploration/3

Just as doomz posted, the Andtech reveiwer (in the URL above) says:

"AT&T offers absolutely no guidance of any kind about what type of port this is, but from experience it appears to be MMCX or possibly RP-MMCX."

It also looks to me like MMCX which is the type you typically see for the small bluetooth external GPS receivers (ones that were common before GPS was genearlly available in the actual phones.)

I did a google search on "AT&T microcell MMCX" and saw a few mentions from others that seem to agree.  So if you can find an inexpensive external GPS antenna with MMCX connector, you can try it.

I have an MCX for my Garmin Streetpilot which does not look like it will work (it's MCX, not MMCX.)

Maybe if we can figure out what the cisco model/part number is for this and search on it we can find some documentation from Cisco that talks about it?

Here are some pictures I took of the jack.  I tried to get the lighting and angle so you could actually see the shape of the jack.

[s1ck3r]

Has anyone tried this?

[jao0024]

I have purchased a Garmin MCX antenna and had the MicroCell fully operational after a reboot in >7 minutes.  Before the antenna it would take ~60 minutes.

[d00mz]

There is definitely an improvement in GPS acquisition time if you use an external antenna.  As was previously stated, GPS must lock before the MicroCell proceeds throught the boot process.

[ablovins]

Yes: although the sales material and documentation improperly fail to say so, the 3G Microcell does require a continuous GPS signal in order to work. Even when I got GPS lock and relocated the Microcell, under continuous power, as soon as it realized it no longer had a GPS signal, it stopped operating.

However, about six hours' testing, research, and phone time with AT&T revealed that customers lacking a continuous and adequately strong GPS signal have two other, undocumented, options:

- Call AT&T Customer Service, get the "PMC Department" that does tech support for the Microcell, give them your verifiable digital GPS coordinates for manual entry into their system, and request a "GPS bypass" ticket. They just executed mine the next day, and my microcell now requires no GPS signal -- the AT&T system settings override the microcell's call for a GPS signal.

- Figure out on your own what kind of external GPS antenna works -- the Microcell tech support guy I finally reached in the PMC Department, though excellent, had no information on this.

For this to work for other customers, AT&T will need to inform its Customer Service staff about these options and tell them (contrary to what I was initially told) that there IS tech support for the Microcell -- then connect them with its specialized staff who know how to request the GPS bypass.

-- ABL

[moleman_42]

I have confirmed that the GPS connection on the back of the microcell is an MCX connection (not an MMCX).  I purchased an adapter from L-Com (Part#CA-MPNFCN19) that allowed me to connect a 70 ft type "N" cable to an external GPS antenna.  It now takes all of 10 seconds for a GPS lock on the first floor. 

My unit is on the first floor, and I needed the longer cable to get to get my external antenna into an area clear of trees on the second floor.  "typical" external mount GPS antennas for automotive use have the required MCX connector. 

[d00mz]

---

moleman_42 wrote:

I have confirmed that the GPS connection on the back of the microcell is an MCX connection (not an MMCX).  I purchased an adapter from L-Com (Part#CA-MPNFCN19) that allowed me to connect a 70 ft type "N" cable to an external GPS antenna.  It now takes all of 10 seconds for a GPS lock on the first floor. 

My unit is on the first floor, and I needed the longer cable to get to get my external antenna into an area clear of trees on the second floor.  "typical" external mount GPS antennas for automotive use have the required MCX connector. 

---

This is excellent information.  This is the kind of info that should be added to a 3G MicroCell FAQ.

[houston01]

The prior posts were very helpful and the people at AT&T are nice but it takes along time to get accurate information from them because it doesn't seem there is a good communication protocol within ATT.  I got routed to the "PMC department" and they gave me a case # with a phone number and a pin to access the phone number.  I asked for a GPS bypass ticket and for some reason I ended up talking to a level 3 tech who talked to a network engineer.  I tried and tried but they would not give a bypass ticket because the FCC has fined ATT for bypassing the GPS codes.  They said all bypasses have been removed or would be removed soon.  I then asked if they could give me antenna requirements and they said no.  They told me I would have to goto the CISCO website because it was their product.  I told them I bought it in an AT&T store and it comes in a big orange box with their logo splashed all over it.  She finally agreed she needed to help me.  She then told me that CISCO sells an antenna and to goto their website and she practically hung up on me.  I asked her to goto the CISCO website and give me the part number (knowing full well that I never found it on the CISCO website).  Ten minutes later she comes back and says she couldn't find the part number because they no longer sell it.

This is what I know, it is an MCX connector, the microcell needs a continous signal (can be tricked by getting lock and moving it away from window).  They said a Garmin antenna with a MCX connector should work.  I'm going with a Gilsson Acitve Antenna with a 25 ft cord with a MCX connector.  Gilsson was very helpful and told me that the longer the antenna cable the higher the signal loss through attenuation.  Hopefully 25 ft will be enough to get to the attic but I'm worried that the foil radiant barrier on the underside of my roof decking will shield the GPS signal.

I understand the logic behind the GPS lock (emergency response 911 location) but placing the microcell near a window effectively reduces the area covered within your house by half...you want the microcell in the middle of the house because you want to be able to have signal on all 4 sides of the microcell rather than just 3 or 2 depending on where you window is located.

Once my Gilsson Antenna is installed I will share the results.  To be fair my cell phone reception problem is not limited to AT&T, all carriers drop within the house because of the galvanized metal mesh used for our stucco and the high density foam insulation in the walls and attic and radiant barrier on the underside of the roof decking.

[houston01]

Received my Gilsson Antenna and it worked great by itself on a high shelf in a central closet no where near a window.  The antenna I bought had 25 ft of black cable for installation in an attic but I didn't need that much because it works great on the first floor.  Their website says it pulls in signals better than a Garmin.

Their website is as follows:  www.gilsson.com/garmin_gps/antennas/mcx.htm

It comes in lengths of 3 ft, 9 ft, 16 ft online (and 25 ft if you call them).  When it comes to cable length more leads to less signal pulling capability so select only what you need.  Got the mail delivery from Gillson in 3 days and total cost was $26.90 including shipping and handling.

Their phone number in Hayward Ca is 510-940-7780 It is an amplified antenna that gets its "juice" from the CISCO microcell.  my SKU for the 25ft version is SKU MCXM25B090-N.

The way I look at it is might be worth it to spend $26.90 to give yourself a little flexibility in where you place the microcell for aesthetic and/or range performance reasons.

[tpm419]

Can you please tell me just where you placed the antenna? Did you route it outdoors or did you keep it wired within your home

Great post, thanks 

[MyDogHasFleas]

No need for it to be outdoors, just near a window.  

[tpm419]

OK Thanks

Started yesterday with several calls to ATT tech support. Support was of no help but I found on a thread to switch addresses to push the server to repond. I added an "A" to my house number, started the registration process again, then switched back to my real address. I found that on 2 occasions I had the Power, Ethernet, and GPS lit while the 3G was flashing quickly. The Micorcell then rebooted with the GPS quickly becoming lit whereas before it took up to 5 minutes. About 15 minutes after the initial startup my 3G was solidly lit

The 3G quickly flashing can mean a software update is being downloaded. That is why it rebooted

Now in a day or 2 I want to move it to a better location with an antenna that is coming in the mail. Hope I don't screw things up

Thanks all

[houston01]

I had a rather unfortunate typo on a previous post, it read "...(can be tricked by getting lock and moving it away from window)..."  It should read "...(CANNOT be tricked..."

My external antenna on a shelf in the middle of the house has been giving me the required continuous signal even during overcast days here in South Texas.

[tpm419]

Houston are you saying the antenna doesn't go to a window also? Microcell AND antenna are in center of house? I have a 16' antenna coming in the mail and would like to move the unit to center of house also. Maybe put antenna in attic

[houston01]

once I received my external antenna I set the microcell in a closet 15 feet away from a window and put the antenna on a shelf in the same closet.  To my pleasant surprise the GPS locked on in fairly short order despite having to go get a signal through a drywall ceiling in the closet and roof decking with radiant barrier and asphalt shingles.

I did plan on putting the antenna in the attic but I haven't yet because it works just fine in the closet.

[tpm419]

Thank you Houston for replying. That is promising news for where I want to move mine to.

[JoeSperrazza]

I happened to have a Garmin 010-10052-05 GA 27C Remote Antenna with MCX Connector (I had a Garmin GPS that used it; the GPS unit died of old age some time ago). It worked perfectly, reducing GPS acquisition time to about five minutes after power-up. I live up in the mountains west of Denver, but have a clear line of sight to the south. I used the suction cups on the Remote Antenna to attach it to the inside of a nearby window.

FYI, Amazon sells this antenna here (http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-010-10052-05-Remote-Antenna-Connector/dp/B00005UK9M/ref=sr_1_2?s=electr...) for $57.99. I'm sure any GPS Antenna with MCX Connector would work fine.

[Goodlands82]

Just wondering after two years of using the amplified antenna is it still operating well.  My problem is my 3g mc will work for 30 minutes, couple hours, overnite & then the mc light is flashing.  My ac adapter seems to get very hot as well; bought another universal adapter & it would not fit.  Before investing anymore money into this I was just wondering if it was worth it.  Thanks in advance...

[moleman_42]

I have confirmed that the GPS connection on the back of the microcell is an MCX connection (not an MMCX).  I purchased an adapter from L-Com (Part#CA-MPNFCN19) that allowed me to connect a 70 Ft type high quality "N" cable to an external GPS antenna.  It now takes all of 10 seconds for a GPS lock on the first floor and has been operating reliably for over a year.  It never loses a GPS lock, and my microcell has been "down" no more than a few minutes total during the past year. 

My microcell unit is on the first floor, and I needed the longer cable to get to get my external antenna into an area clear of trees on the second floor.  "typical" external mount GPS antennas for automotive use have the required MCX connector. 

There are many choices on the internet for GPS antennas with an MCX connector in the $18 to $25 range with 15 to 20 Ft cables that will allow you to obtain a GPS lock near a window.

The antenna connection on the back of the device has nothing to do with cellular signal strength, only GPS signal strength.  The cellular antennas (there are two) for the Microcell are small metal traces on the circuit board inside the Microcell and are not accessible. 

[Otto Pylot ACE - Czar]

This is all excellent information so thanks to everyone who participated. The external GPS antenna was covered earlier in the year so I'm glad someone found the link/part number and posted it. This forum really needs a sticky thread to keep the pertinent information (router settings, GPS antenna, tricks, etc) easily accessible to the new members and those of us who have been around for a long time but forget the details.

To reiterate the installation, the MicroCell has to be at least 18" from an open window with an unobstructed view of the sky for it to establish GPS lock. Unplugging it and moving it away from the window will cause spotty GPS lock and loss of service. You also need to keep the MicroCell at least 2' away from a WiFi source (router).

Positioning the MicroCell in your house for best reception depends on how close you are to the nearest tower and how it is oriented. For example, our MicroCell is in the computer room/library at the front of the house (single story) next to a window. The window is double paned and the roof is metal. I can go anywhere on our property inside and out and get 5 bars with no problems. GPS and 3G are very closely related. You have to have both for the MicroCell to work reliably. You can get a solid GPS lock but if the MicroCell is in a tower shadow, which is just enough tower signal to cause the cell phone to keep searching or drop the connection because it's "confused" as to which signal to lock onto, your connection reliability will be bad. So, moving the MicroCell to the center of your house using an extended antenna should work, but if the 3G light blinks intermittently, or you calls are poor, it could be the position of the MicroCell in relationship to the nearest tower, even though you have a solid GPS lock. The opposite is true as well. Some folks have a heck of a time finding that sweet spot for GPS/3G. Others, myself included, just put it next to a window a couple of feet away from the router and it works like it's supposed to. Unfortunately, AT&T support folks don't seem to fully understand that realtionship but that could/should change if AT&T upper management will give these front line people more support and adequate training/updating.