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Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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02-08-2011 01:49:41 PM
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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02-09-2011 04:37:43 AM
RockNRollMachine777 wrote:
I got my phone over two weeks ago and it just got a text saying I've used 65% already. I do download music from rhapsody check email. Facebook upload photos. But still I don't know how I used so much..
You just explained why you use so much data. You download music from rhapsody and upload photos to facebook, both require large amounts of data. Granted, uploading photos requires more data than downloading a music file, but you have your answer.
If you are near a Wi-Fi hotspot, turn on the Wi-Fi and use that instead of the cellular data connection when it is available.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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02-09-2011 05:52:38 AM
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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02-09-2011 07:37:45 AM
Actually it's not an absolute that uploading pictures requires more data than downloading music. It would depend on the resolution of the photos you're uploading and the compression level of the music you're downloading.
To be honest I am unfamiliar with what format streaming audio normally uses, but I will assume for the sake of argument that it's something very similar to MP3, which is a compressed music format. Depending on the sampling rate, the music files could actually be quite small, just as a low resolution 2 megapixel picture is going to be much smaller than a 5 mega pixel high resolution picture.
It just 'depends'...
The picutres I take with my iPhone4 average at about 1.5 megabytes in size. The music I have on my phone, the MP3 files average about 6 mega bytes per song (I maxed the sampling rate when I ripped my CD's). So anectdotally I'd guess that streaming music requires more bandwidth than uploading photos.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 06:16:03 AM
I have the iPhone 4 but since I've had the iPhone since it came out I was fortunate to get on the unlimited data plan. I use my phone 18 hours a day! I have several apps, downloads, email accounts etc. I can not be charged for overages to my data plan BECAUSE I am under the "no longer offered" unlimited plan. My data usage for last billing cycle is 85.49MB. Having said that. When I purchased the iPhone4, my old iPhone was passed down to my daughter. She is in school all day and can not use her phone. She also had her phone taken away for 2 weeks last billing cycle, in which the phone was shut OFF as in powered off completely. According to AT&T, NO data can be used when the phone is powered off. All of the same apps are on her phone (my old phone) that were before. She does NOT use her phone anywhere near as much as I use mine. Her data usage for last billing cycle (same time frame as I am using for all of our usages) is claimed by AT&T to be 294MB. My boyfriend has the HP Glisten. He has NO email, has downloaded NO apps, and does not use the internet. To be honest, the phone is so difficult and frustrating, its hard to do anything on so he uses the phone for texting and talking. Thats it. He is on the $15.00/month 200MB plan and AT&T claims his usage to be 284MB. I find it very odd, no, FISHY, that I use my phone for any and everything and take FULL advantage of my unlimited data plan and my child who doesnt use her phone 1/4 as much as I do, or my bfriend who just DOESNT use the internet both have used more than twice the data that I have. How odd is it that my usage remains low and I have an unlimited plan & their usage is VERY HIGH (unexplainably) and they are both on plans that have limits and CAN RACK UP OVERAGE CHARGES??? AT&T claims that push notifications are to blame. Well my bfriends phone has NO DOWNLOADED APPS, he is constantly turning his data OFF (it cuts itself back on), he doesnt even have an email, much less utilize any of the phones features that would require data usage. My child who may be a textaholoic, doesnt use her data nearly as much as I do AND her Push notifications were shut off immediately when she got the phone (so she would not get alerts and such while she is in school), she doesnt stream music or video but does listen to music on the iPod (which AT&T assured me uses NO data). So its hard for me to swallow they are racking up more than double the usage that I am on push notifications and such! Who do I contact other than AT&T??? That's my question....because I want in on the class action law suit! I am happy with my service, my phone, my plan, etc. But these new data packages are not accurate and are designed to rack up overages!
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 07:18:19 AM
JenniferB5366 wrote:My data usage for last billing cycle is 85.49MB.
I have three iP4s on 2GB plans. Usage is in the 20-50MB/mo range on all three, most months.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 08:33:34 AM
johninsj wrote:
JenniferB5366 wrote:My data usage for last billing cycle is 85.49MB.
I have three iP4s on 2GB plans. Usage is in the 20-50MB/mo range on all three, most months.
Both situations point to the fact that AT&T needs to provide MORE TRANSPARENCY in their billing, and Apple needs to provide an app that tracks which apps are using data and how much.
I'm reading a lot where customers are doing the best they can and all AT&T and Apple seem prone to do is shrug their shoulders and make really stupid and silly excuses and guesses.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 11:40:56 AM
JenniferB5366 wrote:My data usage for last billing cycle is 85.49MB.
I find it very odd, no, FISHY, that I use my phone for any and everything and take FULL advantage of my unlimited data plan and my child who doesnt use her phone 1/4 as much as I do, or my bfriend who just DOESNT use the internet both have used more than twice the data that I have.
Based on the fact that your bf has a phone other than an iPhone, and statements made in other forums, it is a clear indication that the problem is with AT&T's billing.
It would be great if Apple provided an app to show data usage and where it is coming from. However, I don't see people demanding that Microsoft, Google, or Blackberry do the same. I do see others complaining about similar data usage on non-Apple devices.
It amazes me to see the bull-headedness of some users insisting that Apple is somehow at fault here.
The issue is CLEARLY with AT&T's billing system and the transparity of it. That's not to say taht Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Blackberry could not provide better ways for users to determine what apps on their devices are using data.
In the end, the responsibilit lies directly on the users head to no go around streaming audio or video all day then turn around and whine the they did not know they were using data.
A little education would do everyone some good, and some transparency from AT&T would (hopefully) difuse some of the hot heads that seem to think it is a conspiracy.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
[ Edited ]
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03-03-2011 12:36:00 PM - edited 03-03-2011 12:37:50 PM
This is a very long story. The "Too Long, Didn't Read" version starts well down the page, marked by a "TLDR" header. If you do not want to read this entire scenario, scroll down, read the summation, and decide if the rest is something worth reading. The last thing I'd want to do to you, even though AT&T does it to all of us, is waste your time (and money).
I'm going to put my story in here for others, because in my investigation I discovered a few different things going on. Take the info for what you will.
I'll start of by saying this story doesn't involve a solution, only frustration.
My fiance and I are on a family plan. We each have the 200MB data plan. Beginning late last year, December I believe, we started getting notifications that her phone was reaching it's monthly data limit. Curious as to how this was possible, I looked at my usage. For argument's sake, since I cannot remember the exact number, we'll say she was at 180MB used. When I looked at my usage, I was around a fifth of that, or 30MB.
The huge discrepancy isn't alarming on its own, as people use their phones in different ways. However, based on how the two of use our phones, one would think that I should have the larger usage, she the smaller. I am the nerd, geek, techie, internet guy. She doesn't use the phone a quarter as much as I do for browsing, viewing Youtube, Facebook, playing games, etc.
When I looked on the AT&T site to determine when the individual packets of data were being sent, I was flabbergasted! The majority of the data packets were being sent between 12am and 6am, when the two of us are alseep. Even more astounding, these data packets would ALWAYS be single dumps of ridiculously large files, as other have been saying: anywhere between 30 and 120MB!
People on this site keep saying, "Oh, that's nothing in terms of volume," blah blah blah. Agreed, but the fact that my phone has a ridiculously less amount of usage is 100% counterintuitive based on my usage habits.
On top of that, has anyone here ever tried to update and App from the store that was A) over 10MB and B) while not connected to a wireless network or plugged into a computer with an internet connection? If so, you probably get the same message I get, the jist of being "File download too large, please connect to a computer or network" so the file can download. Why then, would the phone allow a 100MB download of data, especially if the website itself says it's taking place at one specific time, in one large packet?
What turns this issue even further on its head is the fact that my fiance and I are connected to wireless network 95% of the day; the only times we are not is when we are in our vehicles from A to B. She has it at work, I have it at work, and we have it at home. So, it appeared that data was being downloaded over the Edge network in the middle of the night when the phone should have been connected to our wireless network.
Has anyone ever noticed upon "waking up" and idle iPhone, the "E" symbol is there for a fraction of second and is quickly replaced by the "Wifi" symbol? I have.
I'll wait for you to refill your coffee. This is the first 25% of this story.
I called customer service and the woman I spoke to was very pleasant. She looked over our collective data usage for the year prior and she agreed with me when I coined this incident "an anomaly." We'd gotten nowhere close to that, in fact, never broke 100MB of usage. She kindly waived the additional $15 since it was our first time, but encouraged us to be more vigilant. On the other hand, she could not understand or explain why the data dumps were so large and why they were taking place after the device had been idle for hours, in the middle of the night, and when it was supposedly connected to a wireless network.
The customer service rep also encouraged me to make sure there weren't extra apps running. She also suggested making sure that the OS was updated to the most recent version, a no-brainer for me, but apparently not for my fiance. She hadn't updated her phone in a while, and when I explored her iPhone, I found that she wasn't able to stay connected to wireless networks. The setting was on, but it couldn't find anything.
I deleted the apps she had that I didn't have, I updated her phone to the latest version, and it was once again able to find wireless networks.
At this point, I figured the problem was isolated and solved.
I WAS 100% WRONG, SO KEEP READING.
A few days into our next billing cycle, we received the "nearing your data limit" message again. I was confounded, and quite angry. I made sure that she was shutting down programs and that there weren't push notifications for constantly running apps; all looking good.
I called customer service a second time and spoke to a very, very rude and snarky man. He basically told me there was nothing he would do and that it's Apple's problem, so I should call them. Unfortunately, since the user is not afforded the right to know which Apps were doing this, I had no avenue. I knew this wasn't Apple's problem. Apple has the phone and the Apps. AT&T has the data info.
Even angrier after that call, I made sure her phone was still connecting to our wireless networks, which it was. Magically, after that call, her data usage didn't increase at a rate that was faster than my data usage for the rest of the billing cycle. I'd like to reiterate that I've never used even HALF of my allotted data in a given month, even though I use my phone for many, many more hours per month than my fiance uses hers. So, my phone behaves normally; though her setting and apps were pretty much identical to what I have (in fact, I have more Apps), her phone behaves differently.
This brings us to two days ago. Yet another text message from AT&T about my fiance nearing her data limit. When I checked it then, she was around 120MB. This morning, we received what will be the final text message from AT&T during this billing cycle, which stated that she had gone over the 200MB, and consequently we will be charged $15 for an additional 200MB this month. Lovely.
I encouraged her to call Apple and/or AT&T. She did both.
First she called Apple. Remember, the last time I called AT&T, the jerkish rep told me it was an Apple problem. My fiance talked with Apple, and the rep there said it was an AT&T problem. Then the rep offered to connect my fiance with tech support for a fee. My fiance told the rep off and hung up (she's not familiar with Apple's policy of charging extra for tech support).
She then called AT&T and spoke to not one, but two people, both of whom she had an extremely difficult time understanding. The second rep was a genius, because he told her it must be her apps. Gee, thanks.
Then, as a very kind gesture, he tried to get her to update her Data Plan!
TLDR
Obviously, this problem is far from solved, and it is a problem that very, very many people are experiencing. It very well may be "our" fault, i.e. the user's fault that these gigantic amounts of data are being downloaded without their knowledge. However, what's needed then is transparency so the average user can see exactly where things are going wrong if they are experiencing this scenario.
Check it: if you don't put oil in your car, it's going to wreck the engine.
If you take your car to the mechanic each month to fix your wrecked engine, you'd expect him to say: Hey, you wrecked your engine because you didn't put oil in your car, smart guy!
He wouldn't say: Hey, you wrecked your engine because you did something wrong with your car. Sorry, can't elaborate.
AT&T, I am not going to shut up about this until we get exactly that: transparency. I'm going to pepper Facebook, I'm going to complain to everyone I see who owns an iPhone. I'm going to encourage my friends to explore the Verizon option (as I will do myself once my contract expires), and I will give them a very good argument as to why they should.
That is not good news for a company such as yours that prides itself on customer service; heck, I don't even know anything about Verizon. They may even be experience the same issues that we're complaining about. However, the experience I've had with AT&T since getting an iPhone has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm just looking for a way out.
Good day.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 01:38:36 PM
Good luck.
The solution in most cases is to get a larger data plan if you're using more data. The delayed data reporting as clumps has been beaten to death in this thread (I know, you just registered to post that long post, not to read any of the other posts)

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 01:47:07 PM
Thanks, John. I did read the thread. Assumptions generally won't get you far.
I posited my story. I never claimed it was new, or that elements weren't touched on in this thread. I just said it was my story and there may be information of use to others.
Your reply indicates to me that you've completely missed the points of my intial reply. Please read again, and if you have anything valuable to offer to my situation, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
[ Edited ]
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03-03-2011 02:37:35 PM - edited 03-03-2011 02:40:03 PM
Elepheagle wrote:Thanks, John. I did read the thread. Assumptions generally won't get you far.
I posited my story. I never claimed it was new, or that elements weren't touched on in this thread. I just said it was my story and there may be information of use to others.
Your reply indicates to me that you've completely missed the points of my initial reply. Please read again, and if you have anything valuable to offer to my situation, I'd greatly appreciate it.
I have posted perhaps 20% of the posts in this thread that explain in detail the errors in your assumptions, and possible ways for you as a user to mitigate your use, or at least better understand it.
As have others.
In this thread.
So, I don't know how you could have missed them.
*I was flabbergasted! The majority of the data packets were being sent between 12am and 6am, when the two of us are alseep. Even more astounding, these data packets would ALWAYS be single dumps of ridiculously large files, as other have been saying: anywhere between 30 and 120MB!
You mean 30KB and 120KB, yes? This is very typical reporting delayed/batched usage which posts in the middle of the night, but represents usage that happened during the day - because if she had 180MB of total usage, that would be just a couple of posts of 30/120MB and you're there.
30KB is one or two website page refreshes. 30MB is 6 5MB photos uploaded. One is trivial to use, the other requires some effort but is still quite possible.
*is the fact that my fiance and I are connected to wireless network 95% of the day;
And the wifi drops after 15 minutes on standby, unless the device is plugged in, which means all your background email and notifications are going over cellular data unless you turn off cellular data completely
so 25% of the way in, I have already addressed your points in numerous posts that you claim you read, but decided didn't apply to you. Ok.
*On the other hand, she could not understand or explain why the data dumps were so large and why they were taking place after the device had been idle for hours, in the middle of the night, and when it was supposedly connected to a wireless network.
yep, we have documented here that the CSRs don't have a good scripted answer for these questions, and will revert to making comforting noises when pressed.
* and it is a problem that very, very many people are experiencing
No, it's not. Some people experience it. Most learn how to avoid unintended use. Many excellent suggestions for learning how to avoid unintended use are in this thread. Your own post suggests you can tell your friend isn't comfortable with keeping her phone up to date, nor can tell if she is or is not connected to wifi, leading me to at least consider the possibility that she's NOT on wifi much of the time that she might assume she IS on wifi.
For her, a far better option would be putting her on the 2GB plan for an extra $10 a month, for a few months, until she figures out how best to use her device without overages.
Or, teach her how to turn off Cellular Data (also covered about 20 times in this topic) so she'll have NO unintended cellular data use. She can turn it ON when she needs it, and leave it OFF for the 95% of the time she doesn't need it.
My assumption stands.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 02:42:17 PM
John, I recind my appreciation for your off-topic responses. This cannot be blanketed by your supposed knowledge. Grats on being the most active member in this thread. Just because you have a lot to say doesn't mean it's relevant to others.
Get it?
Yes, SOME of your suggestions address my concerns; I am aware of the steps I can take. But your suggestions again are not in line with my request. Quit focusing on the tiny stuff, try to understand what I am saying as a whole, think up a response, and then keep it inside your head.
It is obvious to me now that your holier-than-thou attitude and textbook knowledge of this subject (of which I know JUST as much as you've posited here, though you've assumed the contrary) will be of no use to me.
Good day.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 02:46:26 PM
Elepheagle wrote:
Just because you have a lot to say doesn't mean it's relevant to others.
Yep..... good luck, hope it all works out for you.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 03:59:14 PM
satchev wrote:
It would be great if Apple provided an app to show data usage and where it is coming from. However, I don't see people demanding that Microsoft, Google, or Blackberry do the same. I do see others complaining about similar data usage on non-Apple devices.
It amazes me to see the bull-headedness of some users insisting that Apple is somehow at fault here.
The issue is CLEARLY with AT&T's billing system and the transparity of it. That's not to say taht Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Blackberry could not provide better ways for users to determine what apps on their devices are using data.
In the end, the responsibilit lies directly on the users head to no go around streaming audio or video all day then turn around and whine the they did not know they were using data.
A little education would do everyone some good, and some transparency from AT&T would (hopefully) difuse some of the hot heads that seem to think it is a conspiracy.
I have no idea how closely you monitor the other phone forums, however, I'd hazard to guess it has been asked of the other phone makers, only with the iPhone being so much more popular for non-business use than most other smart phones I doubt any of them will have a sufficient pent up demand to have enough requests for you to notice.
I don't neccessarily blame Apple for the overages, what I DO blame Apple is to continue to point the finger at AT&T and not provide the iPhone users any actual method of providing AT&T the detail to help resolve the problem.
I don't expect any third party App writer to be able to sufficiently monitor applications to the degree neccessary to provide meaningfull detail, from what little I've seen of the API, the neccessary functions required to do this 'system wide' for the iphone don't appear to be available, but I admit to not looking into it in any significant detail, I could be wrong on this point, I bet I'm not though.
So, since AT&T can't write a monitoring app, the end user can't write a monitoring app, and that it's most probable that no one but an Apple IOS developer with full access to the OS API can write it, then that leaves ONLY Apple.
We'd love to be able to detail it to AT&T, but without assistance, how?
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-03-2011 09:01:58 PM
There will be a disparity. If people read their ToS, and understand how the iPhone gathers data information. The iPhone is VERY accurate.
AT&T and other carriers round to the nearest Kb/Mb for billing purposes, and it happens after a session has ended. So if you spent 2.5 Mb during a session it will round up to 3.0 Mb. The next session you used 4.2Mb it will be rounded 5Mb for a total of 8MB, but you only actually used 7.2MB. The iPhone would read it as 7.2Mb. By the end of the month the iPhone usage will be lower than what is reported on your bill. Unless this was recently changed and they do it at the end of the billing cycle where they round to the nearest mb, but last time I checked it was based on session, and not by monthly.
Sorry, but I do NOT for AT&T let alone a customer of AT&T (I chose Verizon over AT&T). It's the same regardless of carrier. So before anyone says I am shilling or what not. I suggest people go back and read their ToS/TaC. They give you 30 days to read it and opt out and return your phone while testing their service.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-04-2011 07:34:56 AM
Tidbits wrote:AT&T and other carriers round to the nearest Kb/Mb for billing purposes, and it happens after a session has ended. So if you spent 2.5 Mb during a session it will round up to 3.0 Mb. The next session you used 4.2Mb it will be rounded 5Mb for a total of 8MB, but you only actually used 7.2MB.
I certainly hope they're NOT rounding to the nearest MB. There's a SIGNIFICANT difference between rounding to the nearts KB and the nearest MB, ESPECIALLY for those on a 200mb a month tier.
For example, you check your mail, maybe it takes 525kb, but AT&T rounds it up to 1mb.
Check your mail ten times a day and that's 2.5 LOST megabytes, do that every day for a month, that's 75mb you didn't use that you're getting billed for.
As anyone with a phone usage that includes lots of quick little sessions thoughout the day could be getting billed way too much.
So let's HOPE they're rounding to the nearest kb.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-04-2011 08:21:30 AM
Tidbits wrote:There will be a disparity. If people read their ToS, and understand how the iPhone gathers data information. The iPhone is VERY accurate.
AT&T and other carriers round to the nearest Kb/Mb for billing purposes, and it happens after a session has ended. So if you spent 2.5 Mb during a session it will round up to 3.0 Mb. The next session you used 4.2Mb it will be rounded 5Mb for a total of 8MB, but you only actually used 7.2MB. The iPhone would read it as 7.2Mb. By the end of the month the iPhone usage will be lower than what is reported on your bill. Unless this was recently changed and they do it at the end of the billing cycle where they round to the nearest mb, but last time I checked it was based on session, and not by monthly.
Sorry, but I do NOT for AT&T let alone a customer of AT&T (I chose Verizon over AT&T). It's the same regardless of carrier. So before anyone says I am shilling or what not. I suggest people go back and read their ToS/TaC. They give you 30 days to read it and opt out and return your phone while testing their service.
LOL you find that kind of rounding fair and/or acceptable? Do the ToS even describe which unit of measurement is applied when rounding up--i.e., do they round up to the nearest KB, or to the nearest MB? Example--1.1111 MB can also be read as 1111.1 KB...so depending on which unit of measure one chooses to use, combined with your rounding argument--rounding up can return either 2 MB or 1112 KB. So I'll ask you again--do carriers round up to the nearest MB or KB? Also--what if we extend your argument one step (or, measurement unit) further...what if they decide to round up GB as well? Does that mean 2.1 GB gets rounded up to 3 GB? LOL I'd love to see anyone who thinks that's fair...
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-04-2011 07:10:32 PM
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 08:35:11 AM
The part that makes me laugh about your reply is that it sounds like you read it, but even you aren't sure which rounding method they use and when.
Again, do we not see that AT&T needs to be MORE transparent when billing data, and don't we see a need for smart phones to be able to track data use by app?
This is a situation I would find it impossible to be in if I were not on an unlimmited plan. Not knowing for sure that AT&T wasn't rounding in a manner that robbed me of up to a third of my data allotment, with no ability to see for sure how (which app) and when (specific date/time) the data was being used would be a significant issue.
If/when I am forced to give up my unlimmited plan, I'll be forced to give up my smart phone altogether, unless another provider could be found to provide unlimited data, or more transparent billing.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 09:46:33 AM
DimentoGraven wrote:The part that makes me laugh about your reply is that it sounds like you read it, but even you aren't sure which rounding method they use and when.
Again, do we not see that AT&T needs to be MORE transparent when billing data, and don't we see a need for smart phones to be able to track data use by app?
This is a situation I would find it impossible to be in if I were not on an unlimmited plan. Not knowing for sure that AT&T wasn't rounding in a manner that robbed me of up to a third of my data allotment, with no ability to see for sure how (which app) and when (specific date/time) the data was being used would be a significant issue.
If/when I am forced to give up my unlimmited plan, I'll be forced to give up my smart phone altogether, unless another provider could be found to provide unlimited data, or more transparent billing.
You keep asserting this. I think what you find most often here (and please correct me if I am wrong) is people blowing past 200MB. I've gone over 200MB one month out of 7, and it was a month I was on vacation for 10 days and not under the wifi coverage I usually have. For $10/mo more, it makes no sense at all NOT to just get 2GB (still $5 less than your unlimited) and with that you'd find most of these people who are SHOCKED that doing just a few thing on the internet somehow managed to use 200MB would find that their monthly usage is probably well under 2GB.
They're just on the wrong plan. 200MB is great if you're going to manually check one IMAP email account weekly, and browse one text-only website from 1999 every three weeks.
2GB is essentially unlimited. Unless you want to watch netflix over 3G.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 09:50:25 AM
I'm on the teeny-weeny lil' old 200MB plan and I use my phone every single day for viewing videos, browsing websites that are more than just text-only, and checking multiple email accounts and calendars, yet I've never even gotten CLOSE to going over 200MB.
Hrm. Everybody funny.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 10:34:55 AM
Elepheagle wrote:I'm on the teeny-weeny lil' old 200MB plan and I use my phone every single day for viewing videos, browsing websites that are more than just text-only, and checking multiple email accounts and calendars, yet I've never even gotten CLOSE to going over 200MB.
Hrm. Everybody funny.
Yep. I know. Like I said, I've gone over once. But its amazing how a few people blow over 200MB and then have no memory of ever using any data at all. It's a complete mystery to them how they use any data.
For me, the $10 means never even having to worry about it, but that's apparently not an option for everyone.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 01:51:19 PM
johninsj wrote:
Yep. I know. Like I said, I've gone over once. But its amazing how a few people blow over 200MB and then have no memory of ever using any data at all. It's a complete mystery to them how they use any data.
For me, the $10 means never even having to worry about it, but that's apparently not an option for everyone.
More or less exactly my points:
1. There's no way from reading bill provided by AT&T or any application or function on your smart phone for you to determine just how that overage occurred. You have to TRUST that AT&T did not make a mistake.
THAT is a problem. YOU, johninsj, would not accept a bill on your phone voice usage without a detailed log of calls made, I'm suprised you're ok with doing that with data.
2. I find it frightening that so many of you out there are so willing to go ahead and trust that AT&T is 100% correct, 100% of the time when it comes to billing, when there's uncounted exampled of them malfing up orders, mistakes in updating accounts that causes services to drop, or additional services that will never be used, to be added to bills. The fact that mistakes could be made that cost YOU money and BENEFIT AT&T, whether by forcing people to pay for additional data that they may not have actually used, or pay for an upper tier plan to avoid overages that may not REALLY be occuring, motivates AT&T to be very, very slow about providing a solution. Intentional or not there SHOULD be a way for those of us that wish to, could check up on AT&T and validate what they're saying.
As mentioned before I have the unlimmited plan, only because I knew that on occassion I could blow past the 2gb limit, and KNEW that there'd be no way for me to figure out how I did it if it ever occurred unexpectedly. Five dollars extra a month buys me that priveledge, but if I ever have to give up unlimited and there's no way for me to verify the bill... No, I'll take my business elsewhere at that point.
It makes no BUSINESS sense to operate in a manner to blindly trust someone who may decide it's better in their short term self-interest to lie to you, than to be honest.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 02:43:34 PM
DimentoGraven wrote:
johninsj wrote:
Yep. I know. Like I said, I've gone over once. But its amazing how a few people blow over 200MB and then have no memory of ever using any data at all. It's a complete mystery to them how they use any data.
For me, the $10 means never even having to worry about it, but that's apparently not an option for everyone.
THAT is a problem. YOU, johninsj, would not accept a bill on your phone voice usage without a detailed log of calls made, I'm suprised you're ok with doing that with data.
I've never gotten a detailed log of data use from any provider of data. AT&T actually gives me a lot more information than I would have expected (as in, you used XXX total this month... vs day by day breakdowns of sessions...)
I still don't see your point. You are NEVER going to get a detailed breakdown FROM AT&T of which apps used what data when. Becase they have no way, technically, to give you that data. They just don't. That's not how tcp/ip data works.
Apple could, but it would be a battery and memory killing enterprise to enable that level of data logging on the device, and even then people would still not even begin to know what to do with the data.
We just disagree on this, obviously, but I assure you other than people actually understanding that they are, somehow, using data when they are billed for it, there is no technical fix here. Short of turning off cellular data, if you can't figure out when you're using it.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 02:46:53 PM
DimentoGraven wrote:
2. I find it frightening that so many of you out there are so willing to go ahead and trust that AT&T is 100% correct, 100% of the time when it comes to billing
It's automated. You think there's someone somewhere randomly selecting people and overbilling them? Packets are counted. Totals go in a database. Bills are generated.
Yah, I pretty much have to assume they're going to get it right. Especially when their numbers and the numbers on the phone match, month after month.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 03:32:21 PM
johninsj wrote:
I've never gotten a detailed log of data use from any provider of data. AT&T actually gives me a lot more information than I would have expected (as in, you used XXX total this month... vs day by day breakdowns of sessions...)
I still don't see your point. You are NEVER going to get a detailed breakdown FROM AT&T of which apps used what data when. Becase they have no way, technically, to give you that data. They just don't. That's not how tcp/ip data works.
Apple could, but it would be a battery and memory killing enterprise to enable that level of data logging on the device, and even then people would still not even begin to know what to do with the data.
We just disagree on this, obviously, but I assure you other than people actually understanding that they are, somehow, using data when they are billed for it, there is no technical fix here. Short of turning off cellular data, if you can't figure out when you're using it.
You're not paying attetion. I'm not asking for a per app history from AT&T.
I am asking for an accurate day-by-bay, and even better hour-by-hour, breakdown of when I was using 3G data, and how much was used in that time frame.
The data per app information, I'm asking the smart phone manufacturers to do that. Since they're going to have the neccessary bottom level access on the phone and in the OS to build the application that can track that, they're going to have to be the ones that do it. You are 100% wrong if you believe it would be a battery killer, that's silly to think that, how much network interface programming do you do again?
There is a 'technical fix' to this and that's to use the technology available to provide the users enough information to figure out what's going on. Not sit there with thumb up rear, shrugging shoulders, while hand is out for more money...
It is NOT unreasonable to expect that AT&T should provide actual detail when they bill you. They are required to do it for voice, they should just as a matter of course be doing it for data already, but I guess you're in the "...if the guv'ment don't say so, then they have the god given right to bill us for their mistakes all they want..." camp.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 03:44:28 PM
johninsj wrote:
It's automated. You think there's someone somewhere randomly selecting people and overbilling them? Packets are counted. Totals go in a database. Bills are generated.
Yah, I pretty much have to assume they're going to get it right. Especially when their numbers and the numbers on the phone match, month after month.
All it takes is a single Google search to find where it has happened before on voice charges, so yeah, I pretty much have to assume that they're sometimes going to 'automatically' make mistakes. Especially when their numbers and the numbers of the phone don't always actually match, month after month.
If they've always gotten it right for you, congradulations, you're lucky. BUT, that sure as heck doesn't garuntee they will ALWAYS be right, and what do you do for first 300 dollar data bill? What are YOU going to be able to do to convince AT&T that you didn't actually have that much of an overage?
You: "My phone says I only used 500mb!"
ATT: "Our automated billing system says you used 17gb, so pay up. Your phone doesn't always log 3G data in its usage (as one person reported being told)."
If this should come up, how are you going to reconcile it, how do you prove to AT&T, the bill collector, the credit reporting agency, the judge, et al., that you really didn't use that much data?
Right now, you can't, you have to pay the money or suffer all the bad consequences, penalties, fees, etc. that will occur if you don't pay.
Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
[ Edited ]
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03-07-2011 05:40:04 PM - edited 03-07-2011 05:43:11 PM
Apple counts bytes. AT&T counts packets (1K bytes)
This may cause some differences.
Also getting the "cutoff" time right, delayed billing, etc, may give you a minor difference.
Point is, there is no systematic overbilling for nefarious reasons.
Here's what's going to happen to ME when I go over some month.
"Oh, hey, I used extra data this month. $10 for a Gig more. Okay - yeah, that makes sense since I used a crapmore data than usual - like my normal 85MB.... right, I watched three movies on 3G this month for no earthly reason. Ok."
$10. The montly service is $170 for my three phones. Yeah, I can swing that extra $10 if I need to. If that's gonna break you, you have to ask yourself if you can really afford to spend a 1-2 thousand dollars a year on a cell phone (minimum would be pretty close to a grand for a smart phone, if you include the initial outlay...)
Edit: you said 17GB LOL... - people are complaining about using a 100MB they can't account for. Ok, so that month its an extra $150. Yeah. "Gonna have to skip a dinner out this month kids, we had to watch 35 HD movies on netflix on our phones..."
Like I said, we have to agree to disagree here.

Re: AT&T SEVERELY overchargi ng my data usage
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03-07-2011 06:26:06 PM
DimentoGraven wrote:You're not paying attetion. I'm not asking for a per app history from AT&T.
I am asking for an accurate day-by-bay, and even better hour-by-hour, breakdown of when I was using 3G data, and how much was used in that time frame.
You can't get that either, other than what's given now. Why? Because you're constantly using small packets of data. There would be trillions of data records without aggregation, across the millions of smartphone users. Where is this data going to be stored? How much are you willing to pay for AT&T to build out the data centers to house this data?
Seriously, you and I are going to disagree on this forever, because it's just not possible to give you what you're asking for.









