Unlocking the iPhone 4s.

[JesseDegenerate]

I'm an international traveller, (i'm also the main IT guy at WISHBONE ITP) and pre-ordered my 4s before it was announced that Verizon and Sprint would be GSM unlocking the iPhone for people like me. 

If there's no unlock option given in the next 3 months, I will be cancelling my contract with fee to move to another carrier out of princeable. 

This has already been done for YEARS by other telco's (vodaphone, o2, orange) and now that sprint and verizon are doing it if requested, you have no excuse. This will not go away.

i'm not paying your fees of $5.95 to $19.95 / MB for data internationally. That's not nearly fair pricing, in fact, it should be illegal. 

Fix this, or loose a ton of customers, and get a ton of bad press. 

/help me howard

[WhiteTiger686]

i am not sure how long you've had your 4s but i think you have 30days to cancel your contract with no early cancel fees.

[JesseDegenerate]

thanks, i just got done filling a complaint with the BBB. 

I will use the 30 days as a get out of jail free card, and see if they care about me, a single user, (since 2006 or 07)  which i doubt. Looks like verizon gets a new iphone customer. 

[WhiteTiger686]

Yeah stay strong on your cancellation, and they will cut you a good deal, or let you go... either way if you are unhappy now you should do something to change it.

[diesel_vdub]

AT&T has never unlocked iPhone's and has always been upfront and clear that they are locked. There is nothing to indicate that AT&T will ever unlock iPhones. There have also been court cases brought up where AT&T was found to be within their rights to keep iPhones locked. Apple sells unlocked iPhone 4's and will be selling the 4S unlocked starting in November. If you need/require an unlocked iPhone... purchase it directly from Apple at full retail.

[JesseDegenerate]

Well before the announcment (made a day or so after the pre-order) no american carriers offered this service. Only every international one. Now that every carrier basically offeres this apart from them, it will spotlight the issue and hopefully they will fix it to the benifit of all AT&T users. 

either that, or they will loose users.

in other words, 

things are different now; and i will be retuning my 4s at 29 days, if there's no indication of any change, for a retail unlocked version. 

[diesel_vdub]

Prior to the 4S, only AT&T had a GSM iPhone in the US since 2007 and they have NEVER unlocked it.

Starting in June of 2011 Apple offered an unlocked iPhone4... if you want/need/require and unlocked device, buy it directly from Apple.

Not all international carriers unlock iPhones.  There are many carriers around the world that never unlock iPhones just like AT&T.

AT&T is not going to unlock your iPhone for any reason.  They simply are not losing customers over this.

Everyone has been griping about this since the original iPhones release in 2007 and the number of iPhones on AT&T's network has gone up every year.

It's not the "deal breaker" that International travelers make it out to be.  There are ways to unlock the device, they simply are not supported.

That being said, a little research into iPhone's from the past, their unlock status, and some common sense would have told you the AT&T iPhone was locked to AT&T without a very, very, very slim chance of being unlocked.  It's more likely we'll see pigs flying before AT&T unlocks any iPhones.

[JesseDegenerate]

actually, they are loosing a customer out of this. Me, unless they grant the exception. Many others will follow.

there are no ways to unlock the 4s at this time, save the illegal sim; which i am morally against (and the forums won't let me post that word, so i won't) (it tricks the network into thinking it's an emergency, which could take resources away from someone who actually needed them.)

And that's the point of this post. TO bring more attention to the subject and see if there's anything to do before returning my 4s.

I would much prefer the viewpoint of a rep to just some random though. (no offense) And the vast majority of carriers worldwide unlock.

it's paramount to stealing charging the ETF at the same time. They could figure out that what they are doing is wrong; or they can continue to look bad, and ruin their business's name with the BBB and others, or they can do what everyone else is doing, and free people's phones who have been good customers.

[dww0311]

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JesseDegenerate wrote:
actually, they are loosing a customer out of this. Me, unless they grant the exception. Many others will follow.

there are no ways to unlock the 4s at this time, save the illegal sim; which i am morally against (and the forums won't let me post that word, so i won't) (it tricks the network into thinking it's an emergency, which could take resources away from someone who actually needed them.)

And that's the point of this post. TO bring more attention to the subject and see if there's anything to do before returning my 4s.

I would much prefer the viewpoint of a rep to just some random though. (no offense) And the vast majority of carriers worldwide unlock.

it's paramount to stealing charging the ETF at the same time. They could figure out that what they are doing is wrong; or they can continue to look bad, and ruin their business's name with the BBB and others, or they can do what everyone else is doing, and free people's phones who have been good customers.

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You are perfectly able to purchase an unlocked phone from Apple and use it as you wish come November. You have no basis for expecting that AT&T will sell you an unlocked phone at a subsidized price. If that doesn't meet your needs, you're also perfectly able to switch carriers if you feel that doing so is in your best interest.

AT&T just doesn't unlock phones. It never has and there is no reason to believe that it ever will. You need to do whatever you think is best for you. Best of luck with whatever alternative carrier you select.

[JesseDegenerate]

where did i ask for an iPhone for free at an un subsidized cost? I didn't. I said i would return mine for one that allowed me to roam globally. there are a ton more things known (like the date at which apple would sell unlocked devices) now that weren't known at the pre-launch. 

i'm in no way looking for a hand out. I would even be happy if they allowed unlocking of their devices after the contract is up. I can't believe anyone would stick up for at&t's locking policies. They are a last hold out and it needs to stop.

they shouldn't control 1% of your mobile destiny, they are a service provider nothing more.

w/e i'll just go return it towards the end of the 30 days when the 4s out contract free, and put the money towards a the unlocked 4s.

seriously, how anyone can defend at&t's position is beyond me, keeping old iPhones 3gs etc. locked to your network is just going to generate bad PR and feelings.

[youngjm ACE - Professor]

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dww0311 wrote:

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JesseDegenerate wrote:
actually, they are loosing a customer out of this. Me, unless they grant the exception. Many others will follow.

there are no ways to unlock the 4s at this time, save the illegal sim; which i am morally against (and the forums won't let me post that word, so i won't) (it tricks the network into thinking it's an emergency, which could take resources away from someone who actually needed them.)

And that's the point of this post. TO bring more attention to the subject and see if there's anything to do before returning my 4s.

I would much prefer the viewpoint of a rep to just some random though. (no offense) And the vast majority of carriers worldwide unlock.

it's paramount to stealing charging the ETF at the same time. They could figure out that what they are doing is wrong; or they can continue to look bad, and ruin their business's name with the BBB and others, or they can do what everyone else is doing, and free people's phones who have been good customers.

---

You are perfectly able to purchase an unlocked phone from Apple and use it as you wish come November. You have no basis for expecting that AT&T will sell you an unlocked phone at a subsidized price. If that doesn't meet your needs, you're also perfectly able to switch carriers if you feel that doing so is in your best interest.

AT&T just doesn't unlock phones. It never has and there is no reason to believe that it ever will. You need to do whatever you think is best for you. Best of luck with whatever alternative carrier you select.

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I would go a step further, An ATT iPHone purchased today at full price does apear to also be sim unlocked per reports? If true, return your iPhone and get a new one by paying for the no-committement version.

I find this hard to get worked up over since this policy has been in place for a long time.  Hopefully ATT wil change their policy but I would not wait 90 days if it is that important to you.  Choose the plan and carrier that meets your needs today.  Nobody should disagree with that becasue ATT may not be right for everyone.

I would also question what filing a complaint with the BBB does for you?  They have no power or influence over anyone.  I cannot recall seeing an outcome that was obtained by working with the BBB especially when what you want is against the current terms of service and policy of ATT.

ATT may change their policy in reaction to Verizon and ATT but for now they don't unlock iPhones.

[archermoo]

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dww0311 wrote:

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JesseDegenerate wrote:
actually, they are loosing a customer out of this. Me, unless they grant the exception. Many others will follow.

there are no ways to unlock the 4s at this time, save the illegal sim; which i am morally against (and the forums won't let me post that word, so i won't) (it tricks the network into thinking it's an emergency, which could take resources away from someone who actually needed them.)

And that's the point of this post. TO bring more attention to the subject and see if there's anything to do before returning my 4s.

I would much prefer the viewpoint of a rep to just some random though. (no offense) And the vast majority of carriers worldwide unlock.

it's paramount to stealing charging the ETF at the same time. They could figure out that what they are doing is wrong; or they can continue to look bad, and ruin their business's name with the BBB and others, or they can do what everyone else is doing, and free people's phones who have been good customers.

---

You are perfectly able to purchase an unlocked phone from Apple and use it as you wish come November. You have no basis for expecting that AT&T will sell you an unlocked phone at a subsidized price. If that doesn't meet your needs, you're also perfectly able to switch carriers if you feel that doing so is in your best interest.

AT&T just doesn't unlock phones. It never has and there is no reason to believe that it ever will. You need to do whatever you think is best for you. Best of luck with whatever alternative carrier you select.

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Of note, AT&T is perfectly willing to unlock phones.  Just not the iPhone.  I've had no problems getting unlock codes for any other phone I've had with AT&T.  They've happily hooked me up.  Just not with the iPhone.

[youngjm ACE - Professor]

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archermoo wrote:

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Of note, AT&T is perfectly willing to unlock phones.  Just not the iPhone.  I've had no problems getting unlock codes for any other phone I've had with AT&T.  They've happily hooked me up.  Just not with the iPhone.

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This is my experience having 3 Nokia's and 1 motorola flip phone unlocked either via free online tools or from ATT directly.

[JesseDegenerate]

Thanks for your response. I would not wait 90 days, i would wait for the 30 day period because of the non-availabilty of the 4s contract free currently. Thanks for being helpful!

PS i know that AT&T unlocks other phones, and with the rest of the carriers now doing this to iPhones, i'm hoping for a change in heart, as it's really quite ridiculous.

[JesseDegenerate]

"what does the BBB do for you" 

they've actually done a ton, with a dispute i had with olympus. The second they saw that i made that complaint, they rectified their error. (i wouldn't buy "water proof cameras" from them for a few more years)

[youngjm ACE - Professor]

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JesseDegenerate wrote:
........ of the non-availabilty of the 4s contract free currently. Thanks for being helpful!

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My local Apple store is selling ATT non-contract phones today.  Per reports, folks are seeing a message during activation that their iphones are unlocked.  You may not need to wait...  http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/15/off-contract-att-iphone-4ss-already-come-unlocked/

[youngjm ACE - Professor]

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JesseDegenerate wrote:

"what does the BBB do for you" 

they've actually done a ton, with a dispute i had with olympus. The second they saw that i made that complaint, they rectified their error. (i wouldn't buy "water proof cameras" from them for a few more years)

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Glad to hear it.  I just never place much weight into what they can do.  As a matter of fact, I often look at some sites with skepticism when I see them toughting the logo.  For example some of these auction sites that sell the product relatively cheap but charge you a fee to bid hiding the true cost of you purchase and making a loss more expensive.

[the gryphon]

I'm in the same situation as you. And as there are now choices I'll be returning this iPhone and either buying one off contract or switching to Verizon. AT&T can't keep this draconian policy in light of TWO competitors who are willing to have a reasonable unlock policy.

[21stNow]

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youngjm wrote:

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JesseDegenerate wrote:

"what does the BBB do for you" 

they've actually done a ton, with a dispute i had with olympus. The second they saw that i made that complaint, they rectified their error. (i wouldn't buy "water proof cameras" from them for a few more years)

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Glad to hear it.  I just never place much weight into what they can do.  As a matter of fact, I often look at some sites with skepticism when I see them toughting the logo.  For example some of these auction sites that sell the product relatively cheap but charge you a fee to bid hiding the true cost of you purchase and making a loss more expensive.

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The BBB has been helpful to me in the past, too, and one time it was against a cellular service provider (not AT&T). 

The BBB has more than one function.  The function to resolve complaints is different from the function where the result is the BBB logo being placed on a company's website.  I don't know which auction site you are speaking of.  I have seen that some people have an issue with one of the sites that I check out from time-to-time.  If you check the BBB's website about this particular auction site, you will see that the BBB doesn't take issue with the fee to bid because it is fully disclosed in the end-user agreement that a customer is supposed to read, understand, and agree to before purchasing bids.  The BBB does investigate complaints, but the BBB can't make a customer read and understand agreements before signing.

[youngjm ACE - Professor]

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21stNow wrote:

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youngjm wrote:

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JesseDegenerate wrote:

"what does the BBB do for you" 

they've actually done a ton, with a dispute i had with olympus. The second they saw that i made that complaint, they rectified their error. (i wouldn't buy "water proof cameras" from them for a few more years)

---

Glad to hear it.  I just never place much weight into what they can do.  As a matter of fact, I often look at some sites with skepticism when I see them toughing the logo.  For example some of these auction sites that sell the product relatively cheap but charge you a fee to bid hiding the true cost of you purchase and making a loss more expensive.

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The BBB has been helpful to me in the past, too, and one time it was against a cellular service provider (not AT&T). 

The BBB has more than one function.  The function to resolve complaints is different from the function where the result is the BBB logo being placed on a company's website.  I don't know which auction site you are speaking of.  I have seen that some people have an issue with one of the sites that I check out from time-to-time.  If you check the BBB's website about this particular auction site, you will see that the BBB doesn't take issue with the fee to bid because it is fully disclosed in the end-user agreement that a customer is supposed to read, understand, and agree to before purchasing bids.  The BBB does investigate complaints, but the BBB can't make a customer read and understand agreements before signing.

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I fully understand what the BBB can and Cannot do and their stance on sites that fully disclose their practices even if end users do not read them.  I just look with more scrutiny at sites that feel the need to display this logo and advertise it in a very prominent role in their ads.  It tells me to look very closely as their is some hitch that they are disclosing to making money.

I am glad they were able to help you out but their ability to do so is only if the company you file the complaint against values their service and reputation.  I just personally do not hold them in high esteem.

[skyhome]

I agree with you. If Sprint or Verizon will unlock their iphone after 2 or 3 months, I will definately switch to them. 

[the gryphon]

FWIW, I've also done a BBB complaint, against Tmobile. I believe BBB was good, and acted in my interest, and I was given exactly what Iasked for.

[TerraPhantm]

OP, I completely agree with you, and likely will be following you to another carrier. There's no reason other than pure greed to keep their phones locked after fulfilling the contract.

[baaadboy]

Same here, I have been a customer since 2008.  I am moving to sprint now, just because they are offering to unlock it.

[BadBadLeroyBrown ACE - Warrior]

No American carrier HAD a phone that could be SIM-unlocked other than AT&T. The iPhone 4 on Verizon was CDMA-only. Unfortunately, as everyone else here has stated, AT&T has never unlocked their iPhones for any use, domestic or international. Your options with AT&T are to buy a phone outright, or move to Verizon or Sprint.

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JesseDegenerate wrote:

Well before the announcment (made a day or so after the pre-order) no american carriers offered this service. Only every international one. Now that every carrier basically offeres this apart from them, it will spotlight the issue and hopefully they will fix it to the benifit of all AT&T users. 

either that, or they will loose users.

in other words, 

things are different now; and i will be retuning my 4s at 29 days, if there's no indication of any change, for a retail unlocked version. 

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[EosBlue]

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JesseDegenerate wrote:

I'm an international traveller,...i'm not paying your fees of $5.95 to $19.95 / MB for data internationally. 

/help me howard

You got to do what you got to do.  However, your rates above may be correct for non-int'l plan use. You should note though that ATT has int'l data plans starting at 50mb for $25 (50¢ a mb) up to 800mb for $200 (25¢ a mb).  

Granted, you'll burn through these limits rather quickly IF you want to stream video or audio.  For email and light browsing, I find them more than enough.

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[the gryphon]

EsoBlue: I think most of us know we cant pay exorbitant roaming fees for ATT. We're trying to avoid that. For example: I spent 2 months in europe this year. ATT was happy offer me roaming (which would have cost thousands of dollars). Instead, I took my used iphone 3GS which is UNLOCKED and bought a local sim card. I spent 40 dollars for 2 months in europe.

The point is: every other carrier offers an unlock for iphone NOW, in 2011. Verizon customers pay the same for the phone as ATT customers. And pay comparable monthly rates, but can have their phones unlocked. ATT customers can not. 

I too will be moving to verizon if this does not change.

[baaadboy]

I left AT&T for Sprint today.

Had at&t offered unlocking service, I wouldn't have left.

Well you gotta do what you gotta do. I travel twice a year so I really needed it unlocked.

[the gryphon]

Listen up AT&T: this is going to be a deal breaker for lots of folks.

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

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the gryphon wrote:

Listen up AT&T: this is going to be a deal breaker for lots of folks.

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Hasn't been since 2007, still will not be. Want a unlocked GSM iphone - go to Apple and buy it there for full retail