Whoever Got Screwed By The 4S Preorder, Needs to read this.

[browski]

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Jeremy Winston wrote:

With all due respect, I don't really care how it worked before.

Yes, I could have spent time looking up what happened the last time, but why should I?

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Well, to protect yourself from the situation you find yourself in. Your lack of due diligence resulted in the predicament you are now in.That is tough to accept, I know. But as someone who did do my homework and saw the writing on the wall, I know that it would have been possible for you and others to avoid this situation.

I had my iPhone pre-ordered at 4 am on Friday 10/7. I have no doubt that I would have gotten my phone on 10/14 like others who got in early. What I didn't know is if I would be home to sign for the package. So, I cancelled my preorder and put my bet on Apple having enough stock on launch day. I didn't just guess on that bet, I read the blogs, forums and tech sites to see that Apple was not going to run into the same problem it had last year with their retail stores running out of phones. Call me psychic, call me lucky or call me informed. If I would have been wrong, I wouldn't be whining about it. I would have to live with my decision.

The part I certainly can agree with you on is the inability to cancel your pre-order. There is simply no excuse for that and something should be done. I'll stand there with you on that one. However, I am seeing more and more people who are claiming that they were able to cancel their orders, so maybe you just haven't talked to enough people. I really hope you and others like you can cancel so you can walk in to a store and walk out with your phone.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but think about how your statement sounds. You want no part of researching a purchase you make and then you want no responsibility when your assumptions turn out to be misplaced. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. You may find plenty of people who are in the same boat as you that will tell you that pre-order people somehow deserve something special and that it is all AT&T's fault. But concensus does not make right. The only legit claim you guys have is the cancellation policy and even then, from your lack of effort before the purchase, I would venture to say you haven't put in enough effort in now finding someone to cancel your order. If I am wrong, all apologies and best of luck.

[marty112]

Yeah, Jeremy. You should have been versed in the mechanics of Apple corporation supply chains before you placed your order for $200 cell phone!!!

Also, the fact that you cant cancel your unfulfilled preorder is your own fault. Next time assume that AT&T will employ every marginally criminal tactic available to them.




Next time assume every

[vitriol]

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dww0311 wrote:

 Preorder does NOT mean pre-receive. It means that you get to order before the product becomes available from a SEPARATE pool of inventory.

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This is an absurd argument. The only possible reason to pre-order is to get higher up the queue, that's why it's an entirely reasonable expectation (plus the store reps specifically said this). AT&T logistics are their concern, not the consumers'.

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Yes, AT&T dropped the ball by allocating too much stock to stores and not enough to the preorder pool, but it did so based on the last launch, where people jammed the stores and few people, by comparison, preordered. It allocated inventory to the stores based on a realistic presumption that people would do the same thing again. They didn't. This time around, they flooded pre-order instead. Yes, they could have done a better job, but predicting the future is a tricky business.

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Actually what happened in the last launch is they suspended pre-orders "in order to fulfill the orders we've already received," . This time they didn't do either, because they took too many (to compete with the other carriers?) and didn't allocate enough stock (by definition they knew in advance how many orders there were).  They also gave instructions to CSRs not to cancel pre-orders even if they are back-ordered, thereby locking unwitting customers in. It takes many hours of aggravation, but it is possible to cancel them, and in practice it takes all of 2 minutes.

[tonester]

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shotgnz wrote:

Pre-order by definition is- you have reserved your copy.

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Yes, preorder means that a copy is reserved for you...but it doesn't mean that it's reserved for you and guaranteed to be in your hands on release day.  Preorder doesn't mean you get your copy on-time no matter where the copy is coming from; for example, say you preorder a 4s--the warehouse sets aside one with your name on it so that it doesn't get delivered to another person.  Now say something happens and the warehouse is not able to ship that 4s that's reserved in YOUR name on time due to logistics issues--should the warehouse simply grab someone else's reserved unit that's not slated to ship out until later and instead send that one to you, simply so that you can get yours ON TIME?  Like you said, you reserved YOUR copy...so if somehow yours doesn't get shipped out on time, why should you expect and/or demand the vendor to ship out another copy that's wasn't reserved for you in its place?

[graphite07]

Why does every one blame the AT&T employees? Then can only ship when the iPhone 4S IS IN STOCK. life goes on with out the iPhone 4S. So it's the employees fault? If so how? Can't ship what they do not have!!

Good luck to all that done a preorder you will receive you're 4S when it is avaible.

[trav323]

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tonester wrote:

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shotgnz wrote:

Pre-order by definition is- you have reserved your copy.

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Yes, preorder means that a copy is reserved for you...but it doesn't mean that it's reserved for you and guaranteed to be in your hands on release day.  Preorder doesn't mean you get your copy on-time no matter where the copy is coming from; for example, say you preorder a 4s--the warehouse sets aside one with your name on it so that it doesn't get delivered to another person.  Now say something happens and the warehouse is not able to ship that 4s that's reserved in YOUR name on time due to logistics issues--should the warehouse simply grab someone else's reserved unit that's not slated to ship out until later and instead send that one to you, simply so that you can get yours ON TIME?  Like you said, you reserved YOUR copy...so if somehow yours doesn't get shipped out on time, why should you expect and/or demand the vendor to ship out another copy that's wasn't reserved for you in its place?

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This logic is terrible. It reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where he reserves a rental car then shows up at the rental place and they tell him they're all out of cars. AT&T knows how to take the pre-orders, they just don't know how to hold the pre-orders, and that's really the most important part. Pre-orders are made to get a spot in line. Once it gets to your spot in line you should get the next phone. The people that pre-ordered before me should get theirs before me. Someone who pre-ordered online (as opposed to in-store) after me should NOT get theirs before me. Someone who goes to the store a week later should absolutely NOT get theirs before me. And to answer your final question--YES AT&T should. If I'm next in line and something has prevented them from getting me my phone they should absolutely take it from someone else who pre-ordered after me--and they should sure as heck not be sending phones to the stores while people who already ordered are waiting.

[doogie04]

I'm going to agree that at any large company the bureaucracy is so deep and amorphous that no one really pays.  It's a little like punching a cloud of smoke.   

With that said, no one seems to have read the email accompanying orders.  Mine read...

How can I change or cancel my order after it is submitted?

Because the process of fulfilling the order begins as soon as it is placed, an order placed online cannot be cancelled prior to shipment. You can choose to either refuse the delivery of the device or to return the unwanted purchase after it arrives in accordance with the information below. All equipment orders processed online will include a return label in the package. Please allow at least 30 days for full processing and crediting of your charged account.

I added emphasis, but assuming floating the extra money isn't an issue, just go buy one where available, then refuse deliver of the AT&T one.  This way you are within the terms of the agreement and you can go get one if you find one.

[fearless.leader]

I have read though the posts here and like many my main complaint is the inablity to cancel the pre-order once it was determined AT&T could not fullfill the order. I understand there is no way to know in advance what the masses will really do when it comes to any product launch. I don't hold AT&T accountable for mistakes in knowing where their customers will go for the new iPhone.

To hold the customer hostage in a system that purposely makes it extremely diffiecult to alter or cancel is not the greatest business sense to me. For that I can hold AT&T accountable. In an effort to hold onto commissions for store sales personal they have sacraficed true customer service. 

My experience points to where or how the iPhone 4S was ordered, not just that it was pre-ordered. Our phones where ordered through a store on October 7 at a time of day when the response was a 1 -2 week delivery. It has not been 2 weeks yet so what should my issue be. A fellow worker ordered his on-line on Sunday Oct 9 at 10 AM CST and it showed up on his porch at 1 PM yesterday (Oct 18). Heartburn? Yes over that fact!

What is the real problem with AT&T and deliverying iPhone 4S' to their customers? Which supply que you use? Pre-order verses in store purchase? Pre-order in store verses on-line? Who really knows here. 

I have to wonder if the iPhone 4S was released durning the summer when it was first expected would this problem have occurred? Not with me since I was not eligible for an upgrade then. Next would the problem be any greater if the new iPhone was a complete revamp, with a larger screen and Ops system? 

I do know that when I get my upgraded iPhone 4S I will have two years to decide how I go about upgrading again. It probably won't be through AT&T on launch day!

[WhiteTiger686]

The warehouse took the "reserved" phones and sold them to the walk-in customers that were in line AFTER us (preorders) customers. I have no problem waiting in line, but "cutting" in line is morally wrong, and AT&T encourages it.

[wisco23]

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doogie04 wrote:

I'm going to agree that at any large company the bureaucracy is so deep and amorphous that no one really pays.  It's a little like punching a cloud of smoke.   

With that said, no one seems to have read the email accompanying orders.  Mine read...

How can I change or cancel my order after it is submitted?

Because the process of fulfilling the order begins as soon as it is placed, an order placed online cannot be cancelled prior to shipment. You can choose to either refuse the delivery of the device or to return the unwanted purchase after it arrives in accordance with the information below. All equipment orders processed online will include a return label in the package. Please allow at least 30 days for full processing and crediting of your charged account.

I added emphasis, but assuming floating the extra money isn't an issue, just go buy one where available, then refuse deliver of the AT&T one.  This way you are within the terms of the agreement and you can go get one if you find one.

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Two problems with this:

1. There are no phones available anywhere (in the Chicagoland area at least)

2. Even if they were available, you would have to pay full retail (because the computer would show you as inelligible for an upgrade).  Then, when you refuse delivery for the pre-order, you'll be credited back the upgrade cost.  You'd be out around $400. Doesn't seem like a very good solution.  

[Linkgx1]

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dww0311 wrote:

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shotgnz wrote:

Hi,

 I have to disagree with the above statement.  I work in the purchasing area of a retail store.  When ever we have a preorder, those sales are allocated first.  ATT had one week before to atleast judge the figures or predict what the alotment they should have sent out.  A fellow co-worker ordered his on teh 7th thru Verizon, he received notice it was shipped on WEDs and it was in his hand Saturday the 14th..   Pre-order by definition is- you have reserved your copy.

I plan on seeing what my ATT store can do for me.  I have been hearing that ATT is giving credit for the Mishaps.   Next time, I plan on just getting the phone from APPLE. and pre order it thru them.  They atleast are showing expected shipping between 1- 2 weeks.  My status still shows backorder from 10/7 at 8 cst time for two phones.

Shotgnz

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Pre-order doesn't mean that with AT&T, sorry. It's an entirely separate fulfillment pipeline.

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You logic is starting not to make a lot of since. If I payed my bill 3 months late, and said "oh, late to me is about 6 months down the line", would they stand for it? You need to have a more consistent flow with your defense sir/ma'am.

[Linkgx1]

I think more or less people are upset about the inconsistency of the AT&T agents-when it would be shipped. It's a moot point to say:

And I have to disagree. AT&T could hypothetically tell these folks down the second when they will be receiving their phones and they would STILL be obsessively checking order status and shipping status right up until the things arrived, because they have lost any reasonable perspective on this. It's a phone. It's just a phone, nothing more.

That's just a theory. You're trying to make AT&T by attacking the customers. It's an ad hominem. How do we even know they would obsessively looking for the item? It's just a phone? Well, you're paycheck is just a check.....so who cares if you get it this year or next year as it will come?

[Citiprime]

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tonester wrote:

should the warehouse simply grab someone else's reserved unit that's not slated to ship out until later and instead send that one to you, simply so that you can get yours ON TIME?  

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No. The warehouse should have satisfied the pre-orders before sending out stock to AT&T stores. Or AT&T should have cut off pre-orders if they couldn't meet demand. How in God's name can people defend a business operation where customers who set-up a contract & ordered a  phone on October 7th are waiting behind walk-ins at corporate stores?

The lengths to which some will go to carry water for AT&T is amazing. Apparently it means believing in AT&T having a totally different definition of the term "pre-order" than every other business in the western world. Just be honest and admit that AT&T wanted to run up sales/contract numbers & screwed over the customers who thought they were getting "first come, first serve."

How does it make any kind of sense to "pre-order" a phone if AT&T is going to first sell it to people who walk-in to their stores before fulfilling pre-orders? Why would anyone ever pre-order a phone? What's the advantage of it?

[markwxup]

I tried, spending 90 minutes on the phone, six separate calls, two referals that did NOT escalate as promised, two hang-ups and one promise to call back that did not happen. Then, in a local store, upon agreeing to pay full retail for stock, to be credited later after refusing the ultimate delivery of the pre-order, all three persons on duty spent their available time one afternoon trying unsuccessfully to get their own company to "unlock" my upgrade without success.

I will try one more time when I return home to a comfortable seat with nothing else to do for two hours. It is the principle that counts - I will not be held hostage!

[browski]

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Citiprime wrote:

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tonester wrote:

should the warehouse simply grab someone else's reserved unit that's not slated to ship out until later and instead send that one to you, simply so that you can get yours ON TIME?  

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No. The warehouse should have satisfied the pre-orders before sending out stock to AT&T stores. Or AT&T should have cut off pre-orders if they couldn't meet demand. How in God's name can people defend a business operation where customers who set-up a contract & ordered a  phone on October 7th are waiting behind walk-ins at corporate stores?

The lengths to which some will go to carry water for AT&T is amazing. Apparently it means believing in AT&T having a totally different definition of the term "pre-order" than every other business in the western world. Just be honest and admit that AT&T wanted to run up sales/contract numbers & screwed over the customers who thought they were getting "first come, first serve."

How does it make any kind of sense to "pre-order" a phone if AT&T is going to first sell it to people who walk-in to their stores before fulfilling pre-orders? Why would anyone ever pre-order a phone? What's the advantage of it?

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Then why even sell the phones in stores? What about the people who don't have access to the internet or don't have a credit card to pre-order? Should they be the ones that have to wait? What makes you any more special because you have the internet and a credit card?

I understand your argument, but I think the problem here is you and many others chose the wrong course of action and now you feel some type of way about it. The solution was simple, walk in to a store on Oct. 8, buy the phone and return the one that eventually was shipped to you. You didn't think of this and now it's too late. I'm sorry you're in the predicament that you are in, but as more and more solutions to the problem are shared by more and more users in this forum, you're just looking like you sat on your hands and now you want someone to blame.

[markwxup]

The AT&T store with stock requires an internal process to allow the $700 phone to be placed in service, and all three employees couldn't get it solved in an entire afternoon on their internal phones!

[Linkgx1]

I preordered Gears of War 3 and got it on release day via Amazon.com. I also preordered Skyrim and I get release day delivery on 11-11-11.

Also, Gears of War 3 sold 3 million units that week....so.......some companies do think preorders are to come out the day they are released...

[Citiprime]

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browski wrote:

I understand your argument, but I think the problem here is you and many others chose the wrong course of action and now you feel some type of way about it. The solution was simple, walk in to a store on Oct. 8, buy the phone and return the one that eventually was shipped to you. I'm sorry you're in the predicament that you are in, but as more and more solutions to the problem are shared by more and more users in this forum, you're just looking like you sat on your hands and now you want someone to blame.

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So let me get this straight....

It's not AT&T's fault for taking orders from people, failing to deliver, having poor customer service that knows nothing about nothing, requiring people to scream & shout at a rep for an hour to cancel their order, and keeping people guessing about whether they'll actually see a phone before Christmas. No, it's the consumer's fault for actually having the temerity to actually think AT&T might use common sense & not screw people over. In your infinite wisdom, it's reasonable to think people should stand in line, spend $600+ on a phone they've already pre-ordered, so they can then go through the hassle of returning the one that eventually comes?

That's ridiculous.

And no, the people who pre-ordered didn't sit on their hands. They did the exact opposite. The very fact that they preordered the bloody phone means that they didn't sit on their hands; they were there before the people who showed up on release day. There are people who pre-ordered the phone early in the morning of the 7th who are still in limbo about their phone, and what's been AT&T's response? (crickets).

[browski]

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Citiprime wrote:

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browski wrote:

I understand your argument, but I think the problem here is you and many others chose the wrong course of action and now you feel some type of way about it. The solution was simple, walk in to a store on Oct. 8, buy the phone and return the one that eventually was shipped to you. I'm sorry you're in the predicament that you are in, but as more and more solutions to the problem are shared by more and more users in this forum, you're just looking like you sat on your hands and now you want someone to blame.

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So let me get this straight....

It's not AT&T's fault for taking orders from people, failing to deliver, having poor customer service that knows nothing about nothing, requiring people to scream & shout at a rep for an hour to cancel their order, and keeping people guessing about whether they'll actually see a phone before Christmas. No, it's the consumer's fault for actually having the temerity to actually think AT&T might use common sense & not screw people over. In your infinite wisdom, it's reasonable to think people should stand in line, spend $600+ on a phone they've already pre-ordered, so they can then go through the hassle of returning the one that eventually comes?

That's ridiculous.

And no, the people who pre-ordered didn't sit on their hands. They did the exact opposite. The very fact that they preordered the bloody phone means that they didn't sit on their hands; they were there before the people who showed up on release day. There are people who pre-ordered the phone early in the morning of the 7th who are still in limbo about their phone, and what's been AT&T's response? (crickets).

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Look, the TOS are what they are. If you don't agree with them, don't buy the product. From the screenshots taken by others, it was clearly stated that all internet pre-orders could not be cancelled. If you missed that, I'm sorry. But that is not AT&T's fault. I have posted up my experience in one of the other 20 or so thread about this, so I don't feel like going through it again. But in short, I pre-ordered at 4 am (EST), saw that the terms of that pre-order did not match my availability and cancelled the order. Had there been a short stock in stores on the 14th, I would be out of luck. Was that infinite wisdom? I think not. I chose wisely. Had i chosen wrong, I wouldn't have anyone to blame but myself.

Bottom line, if you or anyone else doesn't like AT&T and the way they conduct their business, there are plenty of other providers you can use. Everyone always seems to threaten here that they are leaving AT&T and taking their *insert amount* and *insert number* years of service to *insert provider*. If that were the case, my data speeds would improve from the clearing congestion on the network. I secretly hope for nothing more that a mass exodus of 'the grass is greener on the other side' crowd. I try to be as helpful as possible, but when actual thought fails to convince people, the cynical smarty pants comes out and people get their feelings hurt.

Right or wrong, your only option is to switch service or continue to deal with AT&T. They have broken no rules, contract or laws. The subjectivity of the morality and 'rightness' argument disqualifies it from this argument.

[jamileh]

Hey folks,

This has been a very good discussion and there were great points made all around. 

It's starting to get more heated that is necessary and for that reason, I'm closing it. The thread isn't going anywhere so you'll still be able to view all the information posted.

As always, please feel free to contact me if you have questions about why I'm closing the thread.