Re: iPhone 4S is 4G! But only on AT&T!;)

spd2demun · ‎07-28-2007

OK, that is what I read about. Isn't it true 4G LTE is also dependent upon the antenna, 700MHz? Assuming the antenna-gate issue is now fixed?

Will there really be a difference with data speeds on this new phone, or it is really 3G with a new name?

And I know most areas do not have 4G LTE (only 5 ATT markets now, should be up to 12-15 by EOY), so probably another reason?

Apparently, ATT is wanting Apple to add a 4G indicator on the new iPhone.

dww0311 · ‎10-07-2011

spd2demun wrote:
OK, that is what I read about. Isn't it true 4G LTE is also dependent upon the antenna, 700MHz? Assuming the antenna-gate issue is now fixed?

Will there really be a difference with data speeds on this new phone, or it is really 3G with a new name?

And I know most areas do not have 4G LTE (only 5 ATT markets now, should be up to 12-15 by EOY), so probably another reason?

Apparently, ATT is wanting Apple to add a 4G indicator on the new iPhone.

It's somewhat more sensitive to antenna reception than UMTS is. LTE can be deployed on a variety of frequencies. It's being deployed in the US on 700 and 1700 MHz, 900, 1800 and 2600 in Europe, 1800 and 2600 in Asia and 1800 in Australia. The US blocks are mostly just what was available spectrum wise.

It should be a noticeable difference. 3GS tops out at a theoretical max of 3.2. Likewise, the 4 tops out at a theoretical max of 7.2. Neither phone achieves those rates in real world use.

The 4S tops out at a theoretical max of 14.4, so even allowing for less than maximum performance, it should still be noticeably faster.

LTE is the same standard across all carriers. Verizon LTE is the same technology as AT&T LTE. It just operates on (and is locked onto) slightly different frequency bands, so Apple would be using the same chip in a Verizon LTE iPhone that it would be using for the AT&T LTE iPhone. I don't think it was nearly so much a question of the networks not being up to speed (Verizon's largely already is, at least from a data perspective). I think Apple just didn't want to make the design or battery life concessions that would have been necessary to squeeze LTE into this release. Again, I can't really blame them.

Releasing a half-ace LTE iPhone now would have led to a chorus of complaints from the same folks who are so determined to get that phone into their hands. Better to put it off, and get it right, than rush something that isn't ready for primetime to market.

spd2demun · ‎07-28-2007

Thanks for all the info! I guess by the time this gets implemented completely with all carriers in the USA, we'll be needing 5G.

preludeoflight · ‎10-07-2011

JaTaN wrote:
aristizzle wrote:
AT&T's Iphone 4s is HSPA+ compatible. Thats why you have to select the Iphone 4s data plan at time of preorder so you can connect to the HSPA+ network when you activate the phone. HSPA+ is the extended backhaul to 3g, which makes it faster, but not yet completely 4G, but some consider it 4g (ahem Tmobile). Once LTE is rolled out (which the iphone 4s is NOT LTE capable) then both the HSPA+ and the LTE technologies will make AT&T the fastest 4g network as a fact. I've seen how fast it is, it is faster then my home internet and I have broadband cable with roadrunner. It put my home internet speeds to shame.

Its only HSDPA, not true HSPA+ or else Apple would've said so

Scroll down to the antenna section, Apple says 14.4 HSDPA: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/

AT&T is trying to use a technicality to call it an HSPA+ device: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/07/att_announces_record_200000_iphone_4s_pre_orders_in_fi...

Either way AT&T's network cant fully use 7.2 HSDPA so no point in caring about the 14.4 HSDPA

I feel like you seem to be pretty knowlageable, so maybe you can answer me this. It's pretty apparent to me that the iPhone says no where that it's a HSPA+ device, so how does apple get to make the claim that is is? Seems shady and wrong.

nickk513 · ‎10-07-2011

its only hspa+ but stillconsidered "4G."
True 4g is much much faster than what these companies are considering "4g"

preludeoflight · ‎10-07-2011

nickk513 wrote:
its only hspa+ but stillconsidered "4G."
True 4g is much much faster than what these companies are considering "4g"

Right, HSPA+ got grouped into 4G in December of last year... but where (other than on the AT&T site) does it say the iPhone 4S is HSPA+? On the Apple site it clearly says HSDPA/HSUPA and makes no mention of HSPA+.

BadBadLeroyBrown · ‎07-12-2011

And JaTan is not entirely correct. Although some critics are of the opinion that anything that doesn't meat the 21Mbps D/L threshhold shouldn't be HSPA+, the iPhone does utilize a GSM/CDMA radio that does support the requirements of the technology standard to be classified as an HSPA+ device.

http://www.tipb.com/2011/10/06/iphone-4s-hspa/

preludeoflight wrote:
JaTaN wrote:
aristizzle wrote:
AT&T's Iphone 4s is HSPA+ compatible. Thats why you have to select the Iphone 4s data plan at time of preorder so you can connect to the HSPA+ network when you activate the phone. HSPA+ is the extended backhaul to 3g, which makes it faster, but not yet completely 4G, but some consider it 4g (ahem Tmobile). Once LTE is rolled out (which the iphone 4s is NOT LTE capable) then both the HSPA+ and the LTE technologies will make AT&T the fastest 4g network as a fact. I've seen how fast it is, it is faster then my home internet and I have broadband cable with roadrunner. It put my home internet speeds to shame.

Its only HSDPA, not true HSPA+ or else Apple would've said so

Scroll down to the antenna section, Apple says 14.4 HSDPA: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/

AT&T is trying to use a technicality to call it an HSPA+ device: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/07/att_announces_record_200000_iphone_4s_pre_orders_in_fi...

Either way AT&T's network cant fully use 7.2 HSDPA so no point in caring about the 14.4 HSDPA
I feel like you seem to be pretty knowlageable, so maybe you can answer me this. It's pretty apparent to me that the iPhone says no where that it's a HSPA+ device, so how does apple get to make the claim that is is? Seems shady and wrong.

dww0311 · ‎10-07-2011

preludeoflight wrote:
nickk513 wrote:
its only hspa+ but stillconsidered "4G."
True 4g is much much faster than what these companies are considering "4g"
Right, HSPA+ got grouped into 4G in December of last year... but where (other than on the AT&T site) does it say the iPhone 4S is HSPA+? On the Apple site it clearly says HSDPA/HSUPA and makes no mention of HSPA+.

HSPA+ is a flavor of HSDPA. Same basic technology, just tigher modulation and in some implementations MIMO.

TaxDawg · ‎10-04-2011

When I hear this story, I can't help but laugh.

I struggle just to get decent 3g service (as others that I know with AT&T) and they expect me to believe that 4g is around the corner?

How about we just nail down 3g first? Complaints about 3g service with AT&T is still quite popular on many forums

Extol · ‎06-20-2010

It all matters where you live and what your local telecom or att or any cell service willing to put into it.

I see a lot of people saying LTE is 4G...going by standers LTE that's out there doesn't even come near what 4G should be. But yet still can market it as 4G

this is true also for HSPA+ while the current att gear at most cell sites can be upgraded to 21.1(i think is the speed) by software. but not even near to what 4G are post to be..

Also one thing a lot of people forget is that 4G networks have really small foot prints so much more towers are needed.

so at the end of the day i really don't care if i have a 4G or 7G in the status bar on my phone..as long as data works at good speeds i am happy..

btw 14.4 is a HSPA+ speed but do think you can say HSDPA as specs and be fine

JaTaN · ‎06-17-2005

Heres a good article to read: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4943/the-iphone-4s-hspa-when-hspa-is-real-4g

The 4S doesn't have all the features required for full HSPA+ but it has some features so as long as it has some features it can be an HSPA+ phone which is what AT&T is going for -- Apple doesnt buy it since they know its not a full HSPA+ phone or else they would've gladly mentioned HSPA+. Its like buying a base model car and adding alloy wheels and leather seats and calling it a premium model even though its missing the HIDs, upgraded stereo, and moonroof that the premium model should come with

Of course AT&T will try and get Apple to include the 4G icon and wording, but I doubt Apple will go for it since they're sticking to 14.4 HSDPA. AT&T can't call the 4S a 4G phone without Apple's approval, but AT&T can get away with saying that the 4S is an HSPA+ device capable of reaching 4G speeds. Here's their current marketing: "We can’t wait for our customers to experience the incredible new iPhone 4S on our 4G network and enjoy download speeds of up to twice as fast” notice that they dont directly call it a 4G phone

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=21563&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=32981&mapcode=wireless-networks-...

In the end I could care less as long as AT&T improves data speeds