5.1 Audio Fix Implementation – Your Feedback Needed

[artim1]

MSNBC HD is experiencing massive dropouts tonight....every 5-10 seconds at times.  What I find unbelievable is that certain posters here (who obviously are on the side of ATT) are habitually telling us that it is our receivers...or the national feed...or something that is not originally in 5.1.

Where is the technical presence for this thread?  ATT: it is not our receivers, but it is ATT.  My receiver works fine on thunderous bluray dvd discs--far more demanding than anything that comes over UVerse. But audio dropouts on ATT are numerous, constant and becoming a very big bother.

Will ATT technical help please find a way to solve this long standing problem? Otherwise it is back to DirecTV for me.

[jthg]

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ScottMac wrote:

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jthg wrote:

I am in Austin, TX and have had U-Verse for a couple days.  On all HD channels that I tried (KVUE, ESPN and ESPNU), I am experiencing audio drop outs using HDMI.

An interesting item to note is that I experience more drop outs when I am streaming ESPN3.com.  Maybe more bandwidth needs to be devoted to the HD audio of the channels?

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If your internal network is properly configured,INternet bandwidth to or from anywhere won't matter and won't affect the bandwidth provided for the TV (and / or voice). The voice and video use QOS; as long as your network is built and configured such that QOS is respected, the voice and video streams are safe and clear.  Internet traffic is always the lowest priority.

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I couldn't agree more; that is my point.  There seems to be an issue with the QoS.  My internet usage should NOT be affecting the TV.

And, I re-read the initial posting.  I was commenting on the sports channels, and it looks like they haven't be altered.  After testing on the local channels, the HD audio is MUCH improved; however I am still getting drop outs every ten minutes or so... more so when the crowd is cheering.  And, it is annoying enough to turn off the Surround Audio.

Hope this helps in the improvements!

[gbh62]

Is ATT still working on fixing this issue?  Kind of seems like they have given up. 

What's interesting is I just enabled the new Netflix streaming service last night for Playstation 3 (no DVD required).  It now supports 1080i HD streaming, and 5.1 audio, on some content.  And, drum roll please... Perfect 5.1 audio.

Does anyone think ATT can ever really fix this?  It's been 2 weeks now since our ATT friend "wd0423" has posted.

Is anyone actually satisified with ATT's "fix" thus far?

[artim1]

I'm glad to see your posting about  ATT seemingly giving up on this, and would like to hear the ATT-friendly posters' response.

Ditto on your Netflix streaming experience. Perfect audio with no dropouts, so ATT statements that the fault is in our equipment or other comments of theirs lead me to the same conclusion:  they simply don't know what to do about this.

Isn't it just great when you have friends over to watch Uverse and have the experience ruined when a HD movie channel has large numbers of dropouts?  If anyone thinks about subscribing to UVerse, that is a deal breaker for them.

I'm also stunned by the number of people who think that a few dropouts is acceptable.  We are paying a surcharge every month for high-def.  Therefore,  we as subscribers should be adopting no less than a zero-tolerance policy of dropouts.

So  ATT: where are your technical responses to this?  Have you given up?  If you cannot solve this problem, please tell us so we can start looking around for other services.

[JefferMC ACE - Wizard]

As has been stated before, there is obviously more than one audio problem.  What has been called "THE audio problem" by one or more posters may fall into one of the following categories:

1) The particular encoder issue that wd0423 was talking about for 5.1 audio

2) DD 2.0 audio problems (that have little to do with 5.1 audio problems, but get lumped in with them)

3) Audio problems that come from the source material

4) Audio problems that are simultaneous with video artifacts that are due to last leg or in home signal transmission issues

5) Other issues that I don't know enough to list.

wd0423 was trying to solicit input on one specific fix and got deluged with irrelevant posts.  It did not help that their fix was only on specific national channels and was rolled out to locals over a period of time.

I just hope he got some useful information so they can move forward with the next fix that needs to be made.

[ray1954golf]

Saint Charles,Mo.I still have the audio dropouts and the static interference in the audio,I have to turn it off and on again to get rid of it.I really don't think it has got any better___keep on trying At&T I have been waiting for over 2 years!

[texasguy37 ACE - Champion]

Please read (or re-read) the message in the link below from the U-verse engineer.

http://forums.att.com/t5/TV-Programming/5-1-Audio-Fix-Implementation-Your-Feedback-Needed/m-p/203237...

[andrew_burns_1]

I have had this problem since U-verse was installed more than 2 years ago. I have been following these posts almost as long. I am in Austin, TX and still have the same problems. The patch does not to appear to have worked. I have an AT&T tech scheduled to come to my house on 10/21/2010 for further troubleshooting.

I have a Denon 5.1 receiver and use HDMI for connectivity. I've also tried component video cables and get the same result.

[ScottMac]

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gbh62 wrote:

Is ATT still working on fixing this issue?  Kind of seems like they have given up. 

What's interesting is I just enabled the new Netflix streaming service last night for Playstation 3 (no DVD required).  It now supports 1080i HD streaming, and 5.1 audio, on some content.  And, drum roll please... Perfect 5.1 audio.

Does anyone think ATT can ever really fix this?  It's been 2 weeks now since our ATT friend "wd0423" has posted.

Is anyone actually satisified with ATT's "fix" thus far?

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Um, no. Netflix doesn't do DD 5.1, they do Prologic on the stereo stream.

VUDU -DOES- do DD5.1 in their HD content.

(According to my DM-100 Dolby test equipment from Dolby Labs)

[gbh62]

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ScottMac wrote:

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gbh62 wrote:

Is ATT still working on fixing this issue?  Kind of seems like they have given up. 

What's interesting is I just enabled the new Netflix streaming service last night for Playstation 3 (no DVD required).  It now supports 1080i HD streaming, and 5.1 audio, on some content.  And, drum roll please... Perfect 5.1 audio.

Does anyone think ATT can ever really fix this?  It's been 2 weeks now since our ATT friend "wd0423" has posted.

Is anyone actually satisified with ATT's "fix" thus far?

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Um, no. Netflix doesn't do DD 5.1, they do Prologic on the stereo stream.

VUDU -DOES- do DD5.1 in their HD content.

(According to my DM-100 Dolby test equipment from Dolby Labs)

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Hmmm?  I guess both Nefllix and Dolby Labs are seriously lying.  As well as my Sony receiver which detects and displays the incoming stream as Dolby Digital 5.1. 

http://netflix.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=372

[tthomaso]

What has happened to our engineering responses we were getting?

[andrew_burns_1]

AT&T tech just left my house. Even though he said he'd been w/ AT&T for almost 3yrs, it was the first he'd ever heard of the surround sound audio drop out issue. I pointed him to these u-verse forums and he was unfamiliar with them as well.

After reproducing the problem, he's going to research the problem further and let me know what he's able to find out. A really nice guy and I am hopeful, but after reading hundreds of posts related to this issue over the years, I am doubtful at best.

[artim1]

Thanks for sharing that unfortunate story.  One would think that as long as this problem has existed...ATT would insure that their field techs would know about this problem (other posters have indicated that their local ATT folks hadn't heard of it before).

One wonders if the problem might have been solved if ATT had communicated their awareness of widespread audio dropout problems to the field..asked them to monitor it and report back their findings.  That might have been too easy and possibly productive in finding a solution.

OK ATT techs, or any of your ATT-friendly posters---response to this guy's experience?  By the way, I'm watching MSNBC HD on the evening of Oct 21.  Many, many dropouts.

[andrew_burns_1]

Thanks for the feedback. Just heard back from the tech. As expected, his resources at AT&T told him this is a known issue. There is no known work-around and there's no ETA for a fix. Yeehaw. If it wasn't such a pain to swith back to Time Warner, I'd do it. Just seems they have as many or more probs as AT&T. Arrrrgggggh!!!!

[artim1]

Well, that's quite a statement from them.  For many months, ATT has kept us on a leash, asking for feedback about which stations posed a problem and when....issuing a long list of 'fixed' stations which in reality still had problems....and all the while, most likely, scratching their heads over this problem when they know they can't solve it.

My decision to go back to Direct TV will be made on Nov 1, after I see whether or not ATT has managed to lose Food TV Network, HGTV, DIY, etc.  Together with their red-herring approach to this audio problem....there's no way I'm paying a lot of money for such poor service.

[artim1]

As I sit here listening to numerous dropouts during MSNBC HD in Reno....I'm wondering where the tech comments are on this issue. Did the previous posts...i.e., no real fix for this multi-month problem and no real idea when one will come along....put a stop to any ATT tech comments?

For those of us who have to deal with this problem...will be be refunded the $5.00 per month fee for all the audio dropouts we have to hear?  It is for quality HD broadcasts; repeated audio dropouts remove the quality from the UVerse HD experience.

Tech assistance....any comments?

[wolfen]

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artim1 wrote:

As I sit here listening to numerous dropouts during MSNBC HD in Reno....I'm wondering where the tech comments are on this issue. Did the previous posts...i.e., no real fix for this multi-month problem and no real idea when one will come along....put a stop to any ATT tech comments?

For those of us who have to deal with this problem...will be be refunded the $5.00 per month fee for all the audio dropouts we have to hear?  It is for quality HD broadcasts; repeated audio dropouts remove the quality from the UVerse HD experience.

Tech assistance....any comments?

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This isn't a multi-month problem as you indicated, this has been going on for ~3 years! And to think that after that much time there are still a lot of people at AT&T who aren't aware of this issue and yet customers are expecting to get HD with surround sound and new customers are being signed up every day without awareness if this issue. Seems to be bordering on fraud to me IMNSHO.

[artim1]

You're right...this has been going on for years.  ATT has attempted to calm everyone by repeated postings...along with 'please tell us when you have problems and on what channel."  I had to laugh when I saw their list, posted previously in this thread, of the "solution list" of channels which were no longer affected.  I can tune to any of those stations and might have great audio for 15 minutes...then a barrage of audio dropouts, some coming as frequently as 3 or 4 every ten seconds.

At least the one ATT tech was honest....saying corporate had no idea what to do and there was no ETA for fixing the problem.   Very interesting that the red-herring tech posts seem to have disappeared, as have the ATT-friendly posters who remind us how lucky we are to be with ATT and that we'll have similar problems with other carriers. I may be testing that theory in the near future.

And you're right about their advertising which promises superb HD in your home.  With numerous and random audio dropouts in the middle of everything from talk shows to 5.1 surround sound movies? Not quite superb.  Yes..the new subscribers have no idea....

[liquidsilvermx5]

I've had U-verse for about 7 months now and overall have been very pleased with it. It has been very reliable for me so far. However, this weekend I hooked my non-DVR unit up to a surround sound system for the first time and changed the audio output to surround sound from stereo. Since doing that I've been getting audio dropouts, but they only seem to occur over the HDMI connection to the TV, listening with the TV speakers. With my receiver turned on using the optical cable I'm not noticing any audio dropouts.

Is this an issue with my TV not being able to handle the surround sound setting over the HDMI cable? Or is it a problem with the U-verse box not sending the audio stream? TV is a Panasonic TC-P50X1 plasma display. The audio dropouts I noticed this morning were on Fox and NBC, in the Houston area. Thanks.

[BryanSchmiedeler]

If you read the beginning of this thread you will see this is a long-standing issue.

I have a question. I was told this issue would be fixed by the first of November. It is not fixed. I will call AT&T this week. I want them to reduce my bill, as the service does not work as advertised. Curious if anyone else has asked for this.

Bryan

[artim1]

Someone actually told you this would be fixed by Nov 1?  Guess what..I have MSNBC HD on....and in the last 2 minutes, I must have counted over a dozen audio dropouts.

I'd like to know where the ATT technical voices are regarding this issue.  Perhaps a new thread needs to be opened up.

[oufanindallas]

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artim1 wrote:

Someone actually told you this would be fixed by Nov 1?  Guess what..I have MSNBC HD on....and in the last 2 minutes, I must have counted over a dozen audio dropouts.

I'd like to know where the ATT technical voices are regarding this issue.  Perhaps a new thread needs to be opened up.

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Perhaps not.  Any other threads will just get moved into this one. AT&T is working on the problem, starting another thread isn't going to make the issue get solved any quicker.

[windzurfer]

I just wish they would fix this problem. I'm getting irritated enough that I'm actually thinking of going back o Comcast until they fix this. What kind of dingbats do they have working there anyway? 2 years and no real fixes, just work arounds which is unacceptable.

[artim1]

"AT&T is working on the problem, starting another thread isn't going to make the issue get solved any quicker."

Are you kidding me?  We, who have been paying an extra surcharge every month to get HD, are supposed to just sit back and wait for ATT techs to give the same runaround we've heard for many many months?  This is now a multi-year problem.  We are not supposed to be using optical connections.  We were instructed to use HDMI...and therein seems to lie the problem.  As one poster said, ATT doesn't seem to have a clue about how to solve this problem.  If they did, this thread would have ended long ago.

[bdg59]

I have this problem now in Hilliard Ohio. What is the fix so I can get my surround sound up and running again? 

[ApexRon]

Perhaps someone from ATT needs to summarize the current issue. I will attempt and perhaps others can add or correct my summarization.

1. Equipment audio issue with Cisco IPN4320 (WinCE 5.0.1400)
2. Audio drop outs using either HDMI or fiber
3. Audio drop outs are not consistent from one channel to another
4. Auto drop outs only occur with Surround Sound configured on Cisco
5. Intermittent garbled sound reported by users using HDMI connection in conjuction with Surround Sound. A reset to the HDMI interface from either end clears issue.

Suffice it to say, there is a definte flaw associated with audio in the current ATT U-Verse provided equipment/software/network. I, for one, would be willing to work with ATT and their vendors to bring this flaw to closure.

[ApexRon]

The garbled audio just happened and here is how I resolved it for now:
    

1.    Paused the TV program
    

2.    Removed and then re-plugged the HDMI cable at the back of the ATT Cisco box
    

3.    Started TV program
I was right, a simple HDMI reset resolves.

Here are the pinouts for HDMI:


Pin 1 TMDS Data2+


Pin 2 TMDS Data2 Shield


Pin 3 TMDS Data2–


Pin 4 TMDS Data1+


Pin 5 TMDS Data1 Shield


Pin 6 TMDS Data1–


Pin 7 TMDS Data0+


Pin 8 TMDS Data0 Shield


Pin 9 TMDS Data0–


Pin 10 TMDS Clock+


Pin 11 TMDS Clock Shield


Pin 12 TMDS Clock–


Pin 13 CEC


Pin 14 Reserved (HDMI 1.0-1.3c), HEC Data- (Optional, HDMI 1.4+ with Ethernet)


Pin 15 SCL (I²C Serial Clock for DDC)


Pin 16 SDA (I²C Serial Data Line for DDC)


Pin 17 DDC/CEC/HEC Ground


Pin 18 +5 V Power (max 50 mA)


Pin 19 Hot Plug Detect (All versions) and HEC Data+ (Optional, HDMI 1.4+ with Ethernet)

As you can see, there is only data and clocking. Nothing directly associated to video and sound. Therefore, the conclusion that can be drawn is that either the source of the video/sound data is messing up or it is the audio amp. Since I have used multiple cables, multiple inputs to my audio amp, and have never had this issue with Time Warner Cable's Cisco box, TiVo, or my BlueRay, the only final conclusion is that ATT's Cisco box has a defect. And since other people have had ATT's Cisco box replaced without resolving issue, the defect can only be the ATT Cisco box's hardware/software or the ATT network.


It is still my opinion that the HDMI data somehow gets out of sync with the data coming off the vDSL. Why aren't more people experiencing garbled sound when using HDMI to their audio amp? I have to believe that most people who use the HDMI interface have it cabled to their TV first and then from the TV to an audio amp. Where I have the HDMI cabled directly to my audio amp and then from the audio amp to the TV because my audio amp also acts a HDMI switch.

Bottom line, ATT and Cisco cannot get a handle on the garbled sound situation because they have never asked users how their entertainment system is cabled and what components are used.

Waiting for a fix.

[artim1]

ApexRon:

Wow...thanks for your work on this.  You need to become a tech for ATT since they obviously have been scratching their heads over the audio problem and don't know what to do....except to tell us 'we're working on it...please tell us what stations are affected." Or blaming it on viewers'equipment.  Sorry...HDMI works, and the ATT system doesn't.

Once again, astonishing and inept response from ATT.   I'm not a techie...but I knew enough from trying other sources that the fault is in ATT's Cisco box or is ATT-systemic.

Thanks again...now...any ATT tech people reading this thread?

[chrisw]

I never thought this would happen, but it looks like DirecTV customers are having the same exact problems.. and you'll never guess what the temporary fix for them is. Yes, changing the audio to stereo mode.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-forum/222328-sound-dropouts.html

[ScottMac]

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ApexRon wrote:

Perhaps someone from ATT needs to summarize the current issue. I will attempt and perhaps others can add or correct my summarization.

1. Equipment audio issue with Cisco IPN4320 (WinCE 5.0.1400)
2. Audio drop outs using either HDMI or fiber
3. Audio drop outs are not consistent from one channel to another
4. Auto drop outs only occur with Surround Sound configured on Cisco
5. Intermittent garbled sound reported by users using HDMI connection in conjuction with Surround Sound. A reset to the HDMI interface from either end clears issue.

Suffice it to say, there is a definte flaw associated with audio in the current ATT U-Verse provided equipment/software/network. I, for one, would be willing to work with ATT and their vendors to bring this flaw to closure.

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While the issue is observed at the consumer end of the system, it originates back in the video offices. If you're familiar with a "T1 Clock Slip," that is a close description of what is happening with the DD audio.

For the non-neworking folks, a T1 Slip is when both ends of a dedicated connection are running on independent clocks (instead of one end driving both clocks). The clocks are "just a little" out of sync, and when they reach some threshold level, the connection resets and resyncs. Then it starts all over again. Repeat foreven until both ends are in sync (that's the part they are working on - replacing hardware and updating software in the active video infrastructure). In this case, it's the data connection between two or more boxes in the audio / video processing path.

My understanding is that this is the largest part of the problem, but there are other contributing issues.

HDMI uses a serial protocol (basically a CAN Bus) and would have no effect on making the problem better or worse. HDCP also plays no part in the issue.  It doesn't matter if it's optical or HDMI. It affects both Cisco and Motorola devices equally.