Re: Closed Caption Access - Formal Complaint

toomanystrings · ‎11-01-2011

My Sony TV has a CC button on the remote. It's a great feature that we use quite often. Unfortunately, this feature stopped working.

I eventually figured out it was because I switched from a standard signal to an HD signal. As soon as I select HD180i, the Sony CC button stops functioning. Again to clarify, the Sony CC button works with standard display settings but does not work with HD180i.

When using HD, the only way for me to turn on CC is through the convoluted method that this thread is all about.

I am posting my experience here, because it may be of some help others.

I sincerely hope AT&T will find a way for HD customers to easily and quickly access CC.

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Thanks for the post/input toomanystrings. I too have a Sony HDTV and unfortunately there is no CC pass-through on HD programming in using the U-verse boxes.

This was included in my complaint to the FCC and they are really far behind in in creating rules/regs for technology advancements, HD in particular. AT&T/U-verse is currently in compliance in just allowing CC pass-through in using the SD signal/programming.

This will soon change and hopefully they will greatly improve this CC access in 2012 as mentioned/promised below.

(from a previous post)

"While AT&T/U-verse may be in compliance with the current FCC rules/regulations for now, this will soon change with the implementation of the "21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of 2010".

In the copy of the letter I received from the Director-Regulatory of AT&T, sent to the FCC, she said, "AT&T is working with its vendor to develop enhancements to the U-verse platform that would include a more simplified process to access closed captioning. Through these enhancements remain a work in progress, we hope to deploy them in 2012.".

Since 2012 is only a few months away it would be nice if these CC "enhancements" were deployed in the beginning of the upcoming year instead of the end."

aviewer · ‎03-11-2010

toomanystrings - just wanted to let you know that there is a way to use your CC button on your SONY. It is a compromise in picture quality, but ou may be surprised how good it is.

Connect the TV with component cables - If you set the aspect ratio to SD widescreen, CC will be available to the SONY. If you set aspect to 720/1080 it will not.

So, you can toggle between CC and not by toggling the aspect ratio.

I think the way at&t has handled CC is terrible, but I also try to make do when it is possible. I offer you this work around only to give you the same opportunity, not to present it as a fix.

RCSMG · ‎12-10-2007

Toomanystrings, thanks for posting that info.

toomanystrings · ‎11-01-2011

I am using component cables. I've been switching my aspect back and forth between SD and HD1080 as suits the type of broadcast and/or my need for CC. I'll try SD widescreen next time. Thanks for the tip.

I do hope that AT&T (and Sony for that matter) can come up with a software patch to fix the HDTV/CC problem. It would be nice to have one button CC again. Certainly 24 clicks is unacceptable.

Hopefully the communications industry will understand that there is a huge (and growing) market that uses CC as needed on a regular basis. They need to know it's not just the profoundly deaf that use CC and that even this segment needs to be able to toggle between CC On and CC Off on a regular basis.

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Actually it is not a Sony, or any other brand of TV, problem and it lies solely with AT&T/U-verse in making CC's so difficult to access with HD programming. I totally agree it is unacceptable the number of clicks it takes to turn the CC's "on", and if you also include "off", it takes 45 clicks of the remote.

You're exactly right and as we've seen in this thread/forum there are also many other users who use CC's other than the "profoundly deaf". While those who are deaf and/or hard of hearing should take priority in making CC's one toggle accessible, since they depend on them for their communications, they need to realize there are many others who use them on a regular basis.

On another note. Ever since I filed a CC accessibility complaint with the FCC I've subscribed to their newsletters, meeting notes, docs, etc, on accessibility issues. I've searched closely for issues concerning AT&T/U-verse video closed captioning and have found none.

Just a couple weeks ago they announced the "FCC Chairman's 2011 AAA Winners" (Awards for Advancement in Accessibility). AT&T won one of the awards for their "AT&T Speech Mashups for Accessibility" and this complicated technological advanced process for smartphones can be seen in the below link.

http://www.research.att.com/projects/SpeechMashup/index.html?fbid=cwp9FQ2tHkA

Congratulations to AT&T but surely if they can develop such a complicated process at the AT&T labs they can surely develop an easier access to CC's for users of their TV services.

We all know the AT&T priorities are with their moneymaker, namely wireless services/phones. But that doesn't mean they should avoid/ignore U-verse altogether, especially on CC accessibility, just like they would like to dump their POTS services. It's depressing I can't find one issue/project through the AT&T Labs concerning U-verse closed captioning or improvements in their accessibility.

BeeBeeSA · ‎06-26-2009

Uni.....I found this on my bill. Didn't know if you had this info so I thought I would pass it on.

CLOSED CAPTIONING TECHNICAL SUPPORT

U-verse Closed Captioning Technical Support:

Telephone: 866-912-8216

Fax: 866-750-6606

E-mail: closedcaphelp@att.com

Written Closed Captioning Issues:

Mailing Address:

AT&T Closed Captioning, ATTN: Ms. Young

1010 Pine St., 6-E-24

St. Louis, MO 63101

Telephone: 314-235-3333

Fax: 314-335-5735

E-mail: U-verseClosedCaptioning@att.com

"If you find this post helpful and it solved your issue please mark it as a solution. This will help other forum members locate it and will also let everyone know that it corrected your problem. If they have the same issue they will know how to solve theirs"

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Thanks for the info BeeBee. Yeah, they created that contact some time ago when they wanted all the closed caption complaints to quit going to AT&T Regulatory in Washington, DC. Since AT&T Regulatory is the liaison with the FCC believe they wanted to draw the CC complaints away from this department since it may have been drawing too much attention. I always dealt with AT&T Regulatory on all the other closed caption issues/problems and the complaints were kicked up the ladder to Executive Escalations. Both of these AT&T departments used to be a pleasure to deal with on existing problems with CC's but not anymore since I filed a FFC complaint on easier CC access. The complaints now seem to go down the hierarchy instead of up.

I realize this is a long thread to wade through and below is what I wrote in the first post regarding the new contact listing on our bills.

In addition to this letter, a written closed caption complaint on this issue was emailed on 09/08/2010, 1:51 pm EDT, to Ms. C, AT&T Regulatory. The same written complaint was emailed to Ms. Y, who is a new closed caption contact listed on the new one page AT&T U-verse billing statements. The written complaint was emailed to Ms. Y on 09/09/2010, 11:20 am EDT.

It is rather disturbing the new format AT&T U-verse billing statements (Aug, 2010) are ambiguous as to who "Written Closed Caption Complaints" are to be sent to. AT&T Regulatory is no longer listed on the billing statement as a contact. Ms. Y was listed under "Written Closed Captioning Issues" on the revised July, 2010 billing statements but is only listed under "Closed Caption Technical Support" on the Aug, 2010 statements. "Written Closed Captioning Issues" with "Mailing Address" are listed on the new billing statements but there is only blank space next to these listing. Hopefully AT&T U-verse will revise these billing statements to clarify who "Written Closed Caption Issues" are to be sent to.

The bills are not ambiguous anymore as written above. Only Ms. Y. in St. Louis, MO, is listed on the billing statements as the contact for "Closed Captioning Technical Support". I think of CC technical support as bringing attention to problems with existing closed captions rather than making easier access to CC's, or adding new CC features, as this thread is about. Regardless, since this is the only contact listed the only option is to make contact with Ms. Y.

Thanks again BeeBee for the information.

PHOnos · ‎11-05-2010

Is anyone else having a problem with CC freezing after 1-10minutes and then being completely dropped on HD channels and recordings. I started a thread under "Receivers" to discuss.

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

PHOnos wrote:
Is anyone else having a problem with CC freezing after 1-10minutes and then being completely dropped on HD channels and recordings. I started a thread under "Receivers" to discuss.

I can see you posting in the different CC threads to get the word out but replies to your question should be posted in your original thread so as to not duplicate posts and confuse the different CC issues. Thanks.

Since I also have the new "TV2 Client version" update I'll check to see if I'm having the same problems and post them in the below thread you started.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Receivers/Closed-Captions-freezing-and-then-disappearing/m-p/2989113

PHOnos · ‎11-05-2010

UB --

Thanks for kicking this thread closed to the top -- I had lost it. Now subscribed. Shouldn't it be in the "Receivers" sections as it has to do with hardware-software updates? Just my thonght.

PHOnos

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

YW PHOnos. Actually there wasn't a "Receivers" board when this thread was started (9-9-2010) and there was just an "Equipment" board ("TV, remote control, DVR, set top boxes & gateway") under "U-verse TV". When the U-verse Forum and DSL/internet Forum merged with the Wireless Forum (10-8-2010) the different topics in U-verse equipment were split out to individual boards. The board names did change somewhat from what was listed under equipment before.

But there was a "Features" board ("TV features, parental controls, Web Remote Access, etc.") when this thread was started. I consider closed captioning to be a feature of U-verse TV service and also of most user's TV sets. That's why most closed caption threads, by most others and myself, were started under the features board.

Granted many CC problems are found in the software/MS platform of the U-verse boxes which disrupts the CC feature, or prevents easier access (may be a hardware/software problem for access in the remotes). But not all CC problems/issues are rooted in the software/hardware of the STB's/DVR's so it's best to address these CC issues in the "Features" board. At least from my perspective.

But it really doesn't matter where you post as long as the issue is addressed, receives some support/attention, and hopefully a fix is found.

jpinsticks · ‎11-25-2010

On Dec 12, I sent an email To: U-verseClosedCaptioning, outlining what we all are familiar with in regards to turning CC on and off.

This is the reply I received today. I left off names to protect the "innocent".

Dear Mr. ,

Thank you for your message regarding U-verse Closed Captions features. We are working on a pending release that will revamp our menu and functionality for easier navigation for enabling and disabling closed captions. In addition, we will have a new remote available that will have a one button activation of closed caption content. This will be taking place in the 2012 time frame. Please feel free to contact me for any questions or concerns.

Thanks,

jpinsticks · ‎11-25-2010

Sounds like progress, of course the 2012 time frame leaves open the possibility 11 more months

And I wonder what the price tag on the new remote might be.

I'm hoping for the best.

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Good job jpinsticks!

I hope the 1 button access closed captioning remote control is available to all users at no cost. It wouldn't be fair if they charged extra for the remote to users who are deaf, hard of hearing, or use closed captioning.

Since it's 2012 I finally sent an email to the local news media this morning (http://www.abc6onyourside.com/)

to try and gather support for the U-verse closed caption problems.

Below is part of the email sent with some info removed to conform to the forum guidelines.

My name is S. xxxxx and I have had AT&T U-verse TV service for over 3 years. Since U-verse's release in 2006-2007 there have been major obstacles in accessing closed captions where it takes 23 clicks of the remote control for turning the CC's on, and another 23 clicks for turning them off. 45 clicks of the remote for enabling/disabling closed captions is ridiculous. This causes a severe hardship for the deaf and/or hard of hearing who depend on closed captions for their TV video communications.

I have tried about everything to have AT&T U-verse fix this closed captioning access problem to no avail. This has included dealing with the upper management of AT&T, filing a written complaint with the FCC, and even sending President O. an email where I received a response.

Below is a rather long thread I started on the U-verse Forums in Sept, 2010. The thread includes a letter of formal complaint on closed caption access to R.S., AT&T Chairman & CEO, and more detailed information on the subjects mentioned above. The positive response from President O. is towards the end.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/Closed-Caption-Access-Formal-Complaint/td-p/2236519

Recently U-verse sent out a nationwide software/firmware upgrade (TV2 client version: 2.1.2295.10) to the set top boxes and DVR's. I was very disappointed to find there were no improvement made for easier access to closed captions through U-verse TV service.

I was even more disappointed to find this upgrade disrupts the current closed captioning on U-verse HD TV channels causing them to freeze and/or shut off completely. This problem was brought to the forum's attention by someone from Irving, CA. It was also noticed by U-verse users from Houston, Texas. This is a nationwide closed captioning problem with AT&T U-verse.

Since I'm in the Columbus, Ohio, AT&T U-verse market I've been checking various local/national HD channels and have noticed the exact same thing. And I've found without a doubt the closed captions freeze/shut down the most on the U-verse HD channel 1006 (WSYX ABC6).

I watch "ABC 6 On Your Side" all the time and have been very impressed with your results in finding solutions to difficult problems. Is there anything you can do to help resolve these AT&T U-verse closed captioning problems? This includes the closed captioning freezing and/or shutting off along with developing an easier access to the closed captions rather than 45 clicks of the remote for turning them on/off.

Below is the AT&T/U-verse contact information:

AT&T Inc. Corporate Offices/Headquarters

(removed name/title, address and phone number)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I can be contacted by phone or email.

Thank you,

S. xxxxx

(phone # & email address removed)

Hopefully I will receive a response from "ABC6 On Your Side" and they are very good in bringing these type of problems to the public's attention.

spd2demun · ‎07-28-2007

Excellent feedback, jpinsticks!

Their site hasn't had the other 2 remotes for sale for quite a while now (charger base w/clock & RF remote), so maybe that is a good sign?

Now, how affordable will it be? We'll have to watch for when it comes out, and if they have a sale.

I watched the TZ Marathon for over 24 hrs. (not up that whole time!), but the CCs never left the screen except for commercials. I did notice it was the US DOE providing them, if that made a difference.

When watching the 4 national news channels, I've resorted to a slight rewind, then play to get the captioning back. It happens on those channels without fail whether it's news or any other programming.

Uni, if your story ends up on TV, send us the link!

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

In reading Public Law 111-260 ("Twenty-First Communications and Video Accessibility Act of 2010") STAT. 2774, SEC 204 (3) User Interfaces on Digital Apparatus, it is my interpretation one-toggle/button closed captioning is required on all U-verse remotes. SJ pointed this same section out in this thread when it was S. 3304 before becoming public law.

From Public Law 111-260:

"(3) that for such apparatus equipped with the functions
described in paragraphs (1) and (2) built in access
to those closed captioning and video description features
through a mechanism that is reasonably comparable to
a button, key, or icon designated by activating the closed
captioning or accessibility features;"

It may be a mute point if we, including myself, are discussing the availability of these new remotes and how much they will cost. They should be available to everyone at no charge and may replace the current standard remotes.

Spd, will indeed post a link if they run this story on TV.

edit: added "From Public Law 111-260" so quote/section was not confused with S.3304.

SomeJoe7777 · ‎01-30-2008

If and when a new feature is added to the STB firmware that adds single-button closed caption access, I will study the remote control protocol and see what can be done with it.

I doubt the functionality could be added to existing AT&T remotes if it's a new code, but it probably could be rather easily added to Harmony remotes.

spd2demun · ‎07-28-2007

We'd appreciate that.

Now, I wonder why we're seeing reports that ATT is telling people a new remote is coming with one-button access?

SomeJoe7777 wrote:
If and when a new feature is added to the STB firmware that adds single-button closed caption access, I will study the remote control protocol and see what can be done with it.

I doubt the functionality could be added to existing AT&T remotes if it's a new code, but it probably could be rather easily added to Harmony remotes.

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Thanks SJ and appreciate the future technical research if/when they decide to add easier CC access.

jpinsticks · ‎11-25-2010

SomeJoe7777 wrote:
If and when a new feature is added to the STB firmware that adds single-button closed caption access, I will study the remote control protocol and see what can be done with it.

I doubt the functionality could be added to existing AT&T remotes if it's a new code, but it probably could be rather easily added to Harmony remotes.

If I could chip in with my 2¢ ... the "A", "B", and "C" keys appear to be unused, as far as function. But when pressed they do send a signal to the STB. In originally programming the functions, it seems to me it would have been no more difficult to program a unique signal for each of those buttons rather than just a "no-op" signal. Therefore, it should be a matter of updating the STB soft/firm ware.

If those 3 keys mentioned above are already committed, another key could be used to serve two purposes, much the way the "BACK" key does.

But, if they want to release a "new" remote, have at it, boys. I just don't want to pay for more than shipping.

jpinsticks · ‎11-25-2010

spd2demun wrote:
Now, I wonder why we're seeing reports that ATT is telling people a new remote is coming with one-button access?
If this is in the reference to my post, I just thought I'd share what was directed to me. Should I have NOT posted the info?

spd2demun · ‎07-28-2007

No, not a problem...and someone else had posted it, too. So they're working on something, or this is the latest line they're feeding to customers. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

aviewer · ‎03-11-2010

jpinsticks - I like the logic of your two cents -

The CC logic is in the STB. It is the STB that will be updated to toggle CC.

The shortest distance is to use existing IR signal on existing buttons (A,B,C) to trigger the STB.

A u-verse remote cannot send new IR signals. A new remote is required. Logitech Harmony remotes can send new IR signals because Logitech downloads the remote programming through your computer. The remote itself can be updated.

ATT may be talking new remote in order to comply with the letter of the law (i.e. a labeled CC button).

But, it can work both ways - the A, B or C IR signal can be applied to the CC button.

For Logitech Harmony the biggest question is which button to use. Only if att comes up with a new signal is the concern how fast is Logitech to respond.

we shall see - hopefully soon.

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

jpinsticks wrote:

spd2demun wrote:

Now, I wonder why we're seeing reports that ATT is telling people a new remote is coming with one-button access?

If this is in the reference to my post, I just thought I'd share what was directed to me. Should I have NOT posted the info?

If you look at your original post you will see 2 kudos at the bottom. One from Spd and one from myself for supplying helpful information. I wouldn't take offense to anybody questioning what the email sender told you. We have just seen some info sent out which is all not all that accurate or doesn't come true. So that has turned us somewhat skeptical when we see brand new info on a one-button CC access remote being developed. We are all here for a fix to these CC problems and hopefully it will be soon regardless what solutions they offer.

Good point on the 3 buttons in the middle of the remote. In my letter to the CEO, and throughout the beginning of this thread, we have mentioned the "C" button would be ideal for accessing the CC's. But this may not be possible with the existing remote.

edit: correct spelling error

jpinsticks · ‎11-25-2010

I wasn't taking offense....just wondering if I may have done something wrong. All over that email that I received were those little statements about "this information is intended only for the recipient .... blah.blah.blah."

I'm very familiar with the rumor issue....I used to mod at a forum where rumors were rife. Not only daily but sometimes hourly. We had to set up a section just for rumors . LOL

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Cool and it sounds like you do know how the system works.

Yeah, we live for rumors around here too. LOL.

spd2demun · ‎07-28-2007

When we have rumors, this guy appears!

Tom_D · ‎07-24-2010

So, since September 2010 we have a RUMOR that there MAY be a single button soution to this problem at some time in the future?

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

Tom_D wrote:

So, since September 2010 we have a RUMOR that there MAY be a single button soution to this problem at some time in the future?

According to the below 2 posts they are supposed to develop/release easier access to CC's in 2012.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/Closed-Caption-Access-Formal-Complaint/m-p/2943701#M206...

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/Closed-Caption-Access-Formal-Complaint/m-p/3016037#M213...

And below is the mandate/requirement by the FCC the CC access will be through one marked/designated button on the remote. But I'm not sure when the deadline is for this requirement. Hopefully it will be in 2012 and the sooner the better.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/Closed-Caption-Access-Formal-Complaint/m-p/3016991#M214...