Help with HD picture quality

theberserker · ‎06-09-2010

Hi all,

Board newbie here. First, let me start by saying that I truly love everything else about my Uverse service save my HD quality. I had Comcast and now I pay less, my internet is faster (even at what is supposed to be the same mbps), I get more channels, I don't need a seperate router with my 2wire wireless, my DVR holds tons of stuff (and is usually at around 90 recordings), and I can bundle it with my iphone service. I've had UVerse since October of 2009 and immediately saw the difference in HD quality while watching football. I put up with it even though it was honestly bad enough to question whether it was actually HD since everything else was fantastic and I was still furious with Comcast. Now that some time has passed and my anger has subsided, I'm worried about this coming football season.

After seeing basketball on someone's DirectTV and remembering fondly how sports are supposed to look in HD, I find myself seeking a way to improve the quality. I also noticed that it's not just sports, it's anything that has a good deal of movment. Needless to say, that''s a lot. I notice it on TV shows and movies that I see over at friends' houses as well. It's painfully obvious when some is running or anything like that. It basically blurs or pixelates. The Titans games in snow I remember more for the horrible picture quality I had than the actual horrible game the Titans played. It was so poor for that game, I actually went to a friend's house to watch it on a smaller TV without HD. I did notice that most of the time Fox was usually better than CBS and NBC. Again, it's not just sports. I realize that some shows and movies are not broadcast in HD, but after comparing ones that are with friends and family that have DirectTV or Comcast, I see a difference when I watch the same programs/movies wth UVerse. I don't notice any colors being "off", just the pixelization with movement. Close-ups and scenes without much action do great.

Okay, enough whining. I have a 48" Sony Bravia that I had when I had Comcast service. I've had it for a little over a year. I'm using an HDMI cable, but I had a DVI-HDMI cable with Comcast (because my cable box/dvr did not have an HDMI). I only have one component connection in the TV and that is currently being occupied by a DVD player. I can disconnect it and use the xbox 360 or the playstation 3 as a dvd player, but I really like that one (and it was the first DVD player I bought while I was in college and that was over a decade ago!). If it makes that much difference, I can try the components instead. I have tried cables all over the quality spectrum and noticed no difference (save obvious differences in overall quality that make everything look bad). I do have my PC, the xbox 360, and the playstation 3 all connected to the TV using HDMIs and all look fantastic.

I have checked with AT&T techs, and after coming out and testing the signal, they basically tell me to try different cables. One even questioned whether or not I knew what HD "should and should not" look like. Needless to say, I don't find their techs helpfull. Nor do I care to be at home waiting for them to show up sometime within a 4-hour window (some things didn't change with providers). I'm hesitant to disconnect and reconnect the component ones because it involves reaching places I can't access easily. I was thinking I would not have to get to those cables again so soon! If the composite ones are actually better than the HDMI ones, then I'll give it a shot. It certainly can't hurt at any rate.

So, I turn to the community to seek help. I really want to keep UVerse. Everything else about it is far superior. After being reminded again, the poor HD quality may just be a deal breaker.

Thanks for allowing me to vent and for any help offered!

mibrnsurg · ‎07-15-2008

Since your main complaint is problems w/movement, calibrations will not really help that. The problem is most 720p channels look better, the 1080i channels don't look as good due to the fact on Uverse they need about 20% more bandwidth to cover the extra info sent on 1080i vs 720p.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=164671 Tells you whether channel is 720p or 1080i

Having said this I don't generally see those movement problems on basketball, baseball, hockey, Nascar auto racing under my viewing conditions:

I have a 42" Panasonic plasma w/an anti reflective screen and 480hz sub field drive. I use 4 different TV picture settings (3 customized, 2 for lightening dark shows/scenes) on HDMI. I sit at the far viewing distance (3 x diagonal distance-10.5') as that's the way my apartment lays out. All cat5e/ethernet patch cable install.

Essentially the artifacts I see are 'football grass' slight movement and increasingly fewer backgrounds 'moving slightly'.

Finally, all HD channels/programs are not equal on HD quality, some OK and some very good. On LCDs this movement problem is manifested by too slow refresh rates, possibly a download from Sony could help this. There are some users here that have Sony Bravias and maybe they'll chime in w/help.

Chris

_____________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

theberserker · ‎06-09-2010

Thanks Chris.

If this matters a great deal, I sit about 6'-7' away from the TV. Probably too close, but that's how my living room is with the computer behind me (just as much a source of entertainment as the TV nowadays). At any rate, The TV and my seat are both in the same location as when I had Comcast.

I think that AT&T ran a cat5e/ethernet cable from a phone jack in another room through the floor (a small hole hidden by furniture) in the crawlspace and back up through the floor (hidden by the entertainment center). Is there another install method that may be better? Based on what they told me during the install, I had no other options.

Thanks for the link as well!

After checking that link I did notice a correlation... The channels I notice it more on are those 1080i ones (ABC, NBC, DIscovery, Premium movies channels). I even notice it at the beginning of CBS's Big Bang Theory during the opening title. And on NBC, I remember checking connections when Faith Hill came on prior to the Sunday Night games. She deserves crisp and clear HD! I had many firends ask what was wrong with my HD, so I feel it's not just me being picky.

I haven't noticed it as badly with other sports as with football, but it is still there and obvious to me. It's any movement that creates the pixelization or a blurred pixelized halo around whatever is moving.

I do have the Bravia that had issues with really dark scenes that had a downloadable update. But I had the update before I had the TV, so it's been installed from day one and I never had any of the issues I have with AT&T when I had Comcast.

Thanks again folks!

Randy

mibrnsurg · ‎07-15-2008

It's funny what I consider the 2 best HD on film programs are both on CBS (1080i), Criminal Minds and The Mentalist. By the way ABC is 720p as are all the ESPNs.

I am glad my apartment layed out the way it did as if I do go closer, the HD is not as good, but not fuzzy as in the Shaq commercial for Comcrap. Cat5e is the preferred method for Uverse, coax is acceptable if installed properly w/out the installer taking any shortcuts.

Chris

_______________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

RRK_1 · ‎09-08-2008

I must say, HD has improved quite a bit since I first signed up. I recently saw an episode of sunrise earth that was once horrid and is now pretty darn good. It is the episode where they are doing tai chi near the golden gate bridge. Its only sports now that are obviously worse then at my friends houses. I wonder how much those that said the picture was "perfect' a year or so ago like it now?

mibrnsurg · ‎07-15-2008

I will have to say the artifacts in Sunrise Earth are much less apparent than they were a year ago. Although there are still some not so good HD programs on Uverse and have to wonder if set/location lighting are affecting HD quality in these cases.

Chris

______________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

chrisw · ‎05-25-2010

Time to change the "HD Technology Fee" to the "Widescreen Technology Fee"

theberserker · ‎06-09-2010

Thanks all,

I have also noticed an improvement in some things, but not enough. I reserve full judgement for viewing football. I did try the composite cables and unfortuantely, did not notice a difference at all in the HD quality. I'm confounded. One of my clients says that their HD is fantastic and I've been to their home and seen their tv in action when they had DirectTV w/ HD. I imagine that I'm in the minority. I can't get DirectTV (can't mount the dish on the roof to avoid trees and a clubhouse) and Comcast refused (and still refuses) to replace the coaxial cable coming in my condo that caused me to lose signal frequently, so I'm stuck.

Thanks again folks!

CGI_1 · ‎07-29-2008

theberserker wrote:
Thanks all,

I have also noticed an improvement in some things, but not enough. I reserve full judgement for viewing football. I did try the composite cables and unfortuantely, did not notice a difference at all in the HD quality. I'm confounded. One of my clients says that their HD is fantastic and I've been to their home and seen their tv in action when they had DirectTV w/ HD. I imagine that I'm in the minority. I can't get DirectTV (can't mount the dish on the roof to avoid trees and a clubhouse) and Comcast refused (and still refuses) to replace the coaxial cable coming in my condo that caused me to lose signal frequently, so I'm stuck.

Thanks again folks!

Theres only so much you can do with 6Mbps per HD stream.

richalt2 · ‎05-29-2008

Seeing this posting later in time, I would add that the bandwidth of your connection to the Internet (and to AT&T video servers) is very important for video quality. 720p at 30 frames/sec will encode with excellent quality at 6Mbit/sec (MPEG-4). However one probably needs an incoming bandwidth of twice that to avoid dropped frames. You can measure your incoming data bandwidth with http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

Since you describe the image quality issues very clearly as motion pixelation, this suggests to me your video signal source is over-compressed, in order to deliver the frame rate with no dropped frames.

I'm wondering if AT&T provides video at a compression matched to particular Internet connection speeds? This seems quite likely when I think about it. If true, then two users on the same channel will see different motion pixelation, depending on being on say a 6Mbit DSL versus a 12Mbit DSL.

If your line speed is less than 5Mbit, then I will be so bold as to say you will never see good HD motion video.

Could you measure and post your Internet connection speed, such as using Speakeasy?

If it is low, then your only path is to first improve this number.

Also should you have a way to capture an hour of HD material, transfer it to your PC, that allows estimating the encoding bit rate! Simply size in bytes *8 / time-in-seconds, as an approximation.

FYI, Rich

mibrnsurg · ‎07-15-2008

Internet speed has nothing to do w/PQ; internet speed is only a portion of your profile (19/2, 25/2 or 32/5 all Mbps). TV always has prioity over internet on Uverse, so will take a portion of internet speed sometimes on 18 or 24M internet for TV if needed.

Chris

_____________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

richalt2 · ‎05-29-2008

Here is a nice article on U-verse video bitrates,

http://utalk.att.com/t5/Equipment/Picture-Quality-is-HORRIBLE-for-a-digital-service/m-p/105507#M2010...

mibrnsurg · ‎07-15-2008

I know that SomeJoe post as I give it to other users when neded, but it has nothing to do w/internet speed. That post is about video bitrates and transport mechanisms among different providers.

Chris

_____________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

smcleod1106 · ‎12-23-2008

theberserker wrote:
Thanks Chris.

If this matters a great deal, I sit about 6'-7' away from the TV. Probably too close, but that's how my living room is with the computer behind me (just as much a source of entertainment as the TV nowadays). At any rate, The TV and my seat are both in the same location as when I had Comcast.

I think that AT&T ran a cat5e/ethernet cable from a phone jack in another room through the floor (a small hole hidden by furniture) in the crawlspace and back up through the floor (hidden by the entertainment center). Is there another install method that may be better? Based on what they told me during the install, I had no other options.

Thanks for the link as well!

After checking that link I did notice a correlation... The channels I notice it more on are those 1080i ones (ABC, NBC, DIscovery, Premium movies channels). I even notice it at the beginning of CBS's Big Bang Theory during the opening title. And on NBC, I remember checking connections when Faith Hill came on prior to the Sunday Night games. She deserves crisp and clear HD! I had many firends ask what was wrong with my HD, so I feel it's not just me being picky.

I haven't noticed it as badly with other sports as with football, but it is still there and obvious to me. It's any movement that creates the pixelization or a blurred pixelized halo around whatever is moving.

I do have the Bravia that had issues with really dark scenes that had a downloadable update. But I had the update before I had the TV, so it's been installed from day one and I never had any of the issues I have with AT&T when I had Comcast.

Thanks again folks!

Randy