Using your own wireless router with u-verse

[bdmayes]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post (and will likely be my only one).  I just got U-verse installed yesterday and ran into a snag.  I prefer to use my own wireless router for several reasons:

1) My router does wireless 802.11N for speeds of up to 300 Megabits/second.  The wireless provided by the U-verse gateway (from 2wire) can only do a maximum of 54 Megabits/second.

2) I had previously configured all of the systems (and wireless systems) behind my router to have reserved DCHP addresses based on their MAC address -- and didn't really want to have to do it again if I didn't have to.

3) I use my own VOIP service, and configued my existing router to specifically give the MAC address of my VOIP system a higher priority for traffic.  This is typically called Quality of Service (QoS) configuration and the 2wire gateway does not allow this.  Therefore, under heavy load (such as uploading files to work), the voice quality on my call degrades and people complain that I am breaking up when I am talking.

I tried to do my research and find information about how to set this up online, but I was not able to find any relevant information except some stuff on Yahoo questions/answers that you can just plug the wireless router into one of the ports on the 2wire gateway and off you go, using your own wireless.  This is only partially true.  The problem is that both the 2wire gateway and your wireless router are attempting to act as DHCP servers.  If you wish for your router to be a DHCP server, then this configuration will not work (I'll explain why shortly).

If you have this setup:

Computer -> your own wireless router -> 2wire gateway

then you should be able to open a browser on your computer and within a minute or two, the system will detect that there is a problem (2 routers both trying to assign DHCP addresses...which causes conflicts).  The 2wire gateway will therefore prompt you to enable what they call DMZplus mode.  I went ahead and did this -- which caused my 2 TVs to stop functioning (though not immediately and it therefore confused me when my TVs just suddenly stopped).  The reason is because enabling DMZplus mode routes *ALL* internet traffic to the device specified as the DMZ (which happens to be your router plugged into the 2wire gateway).  Visit this page below and click on "Allow All Applications (DMZplus)" for more information:

http://support.2wire.com/index.php?page=view&article=222

Notice that it specifically states: "WARNING: A computer in DMZplus mode is less secure because all available ports are open and all incoming Internet traffic is directed to this computer."

Did you catch that last part?  *ALL* Internet traffic is directed to system you specify as the DMZ host.  So in order to use your own wireless router, you have to disconnect any ethernet cables on the back of the 2wire gateway and plug them into your own router instead.  I made this change and VIOLA! my TVs work again.  If you don't have enough ports, you can always connect a switch to the back of the router (switches are not DHCP servers so you will not have this same issue all over again), and then connect devices to the switch.  This is my current configuration and it seems to be working perfectly now.  It looks something like this:

2wire gateway

     | - wireless router

          | - desktop computer 1

          | - desktop computer 2

          | - VOIP

          | - gigabit switch

               | - ethernet cable for U-verse TV1

               | - ethernet cable for U-verse TV2

If it sounds a little complicated that's because it kind of is.  Above I am trying to depict that the only thing plugged into my 2wire gateway is my router.  The router has 4 devices plugged into it (2 computers, my VOIP system, and a gigabit switch).  The 2 ethernet cables that feed my TV receivers are then plugged into that switch.

I do not believe this applies to systems where the TVs are connected through coax cable -- but both of my TVs were connected through ethernet (cat 5e) cables, plugged directly into the back of the gateway.  Certainly in such a configuration, enabling the DMZplus mode will require to you plug any ethernet cables attached to the gateway into your router (the DMZ host) instead.

I hope this helps anyone considering switching to their own router and/or new customers that intend to use their own router once their U-verse installation is complete. If such information was available to me when I was looking -- it would have made today much, much easier!  Now that everything is up and running I am very happy again.  Other than struggling through this issue, I have been very happy with my new U-verse service.  Best of luck with yours.

[texasguy37 ACE - Champion]

The thread below explains how you can use your own wireless router with the U-verse Residential Gateway.

http://utalk.att.com/utalk/board/message?board.id=HSIA&message.id=8149#M8149

[nwrickert]

There's lots of confusion there.

I have my own router behind the RG, in DMZplus mode.  TV is connected directly to the RG (does not use my router).  TV continues to work just fine.  The DMZplus router does not get all of the traffic.  It only gets the traffic that is not for a device directly connected to the RG.

Note:  The WAN port of the router is connected to the RG.  My computers on LAN ports of the router.  There was never a problem with DHCP conflicts.

It is sounding to me as if you connected a LAN port of your router to the RG.  That would have caused DHCP conflicts unless you disabled DHCP.

[bdmayes]

nwrickert,

I would be very interested to know exactly how you got that to work, because enabling DMZplus mode killed the connection for all devices attached to my gateway (except for my router of course).  As far as I know, I did NOT connect a LAN port on my router to the RG.  Let me give some more details, because I would love to make this simpler if possible:

My RG has 4 ports on it for "local ethernet".  It also has a port labeled "broadband", though I am not sure what that port does.  It is currently covered up with a clear sticker and not in use.  By default, it comes up as 192.168.1.254 and serves DHCP clients using 192.168.1.* addresses.  As of right now, the only thing connected is my router, which is plugged into port 1.

My wireless router is a Linksys WRT310N.  It has 5 ports on the back...one is labeled "Internet" which is used for the incoming network feed, and then of course, 4 ports for ethernet connections.  The gateway is 192.168.0.1 and it serves up DHCP clients on 192.168.0.* addresses.

So here was my configuration:

RG:

====

port 1: Connected to the "Internet" port on my WRT310N

port 2: Receiver for main DVR/TV

port 3: Receiver for second DVR/TV

port 4: Connected to my blu-ray player (which can stream Netflix/Pandora -- though I'm not currently using them yet)

Then of course the router has 2 computers and my VOIP wired to it.

Am I missing something?  As soon as DMZplus was enabled, the TVs stopped working and blu-ray couldn't connect to Pandora/check updates/etc.

So I guess what I would like to know is:

1. What port on your RG do you have your router plugged into?

2. Is your router still acting as a DHCP server?  If so, what network is it serving up addresses on?  I wouldn't think that 192.168.1.* and 192.168.0.* conflict, but apparently they are because my setup didn't work.

3.  Does any of the above info make it clearer what I am doing wrong?

[MyDogHasFleas]

Your network will be a lot simpler and work better day to day if you bite the bullet and give up on your own router.

1)  802.11n -- 802.11g is many times more wide than needed to get full access to U-verse's bandwidth.  Only if you're doing big wireless transfers between computers in your local network will you be able to utilize 802.11n.  

2)  Tying MAC to DHCP -- why do you really need to do that?  Just let the PCs get their own IP addresses, or configure static addresses into them.  

3)  VoIP and QoS -- bite the bullet and pay the $30/month for U-verse Voice.  It's excellent, has complete QoS built in, and it just works.   

[bdmayes]

1)  802.11n -- 802.11g is many times more wide than needed to get full access to U-verse's bandwidth.  Only if you're doing big wireless transfers between computers in your local network will you be able to utilize 802.11n.

I realize this -- it's not much of a concern to me at the moment but may be in the future.  To be honest, none of my wireless cards are capable of 802.11n anyway, but the range on my Linksys router is much better than the range for the 2wire RG.  I like the fact that my own Linksys router has a signal capable of reaching my master bedroom.

2)  Tying MAC to DHCP -- why do you really need to do that?  Just let the PCs get their own IP addresses, or configure static addresses into them.

Several reasons.  I am hosting a website that is used for my Masters thesis.  I need that system to always come up on the same address because I have port 80 forwarding to that specific IP.  I also do work on this stuff remotely and often need to SSH to my system (again, forwarded to the same IP).  My printer is also connected to a specific system and all other systems connect to that IP, so it needs to be a static address.  Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that other people don't find it useful.  It's easier to configure this stuff as a reserved DHCP client than configuring static IPs on the systems themselves.  The technology is there and therefore I should be able to take advantage of it.

3)  VoIP and QoS -- bite the bullet and pay the $30/month for U-verse Voice.  It's excellent, has complete QoS built in, and it just works.

I already spent $220 for the Ooma hub as my VOIP.  There are no monthly fees for it...ever.  So if you want to refund my $220 and then pay the $30/month for u-verse voice I have no problem with that.  Otherwise, there is no apples to apples comparison for the cost of the two different VOIP systems.  Thus -- how about I continue to use my own VOIP solution that I have already purchased? 

Message Edited by bdmayes on 12-24-2009 10:29 AM

[ScottMac]

There is one critical error in the OP stating that once DMZ plus is implemented, ALL devices must be attached to the device in the DMZ ... this is wrong. STBs and DVRs should be connected directly to the RG, or to a switch that supports 802.1p that is connected directly to the RG. Most/all current GigE switches support this protocol (it permits packets with elevated priority more reliable access through the network ... for video and voice traffic).

Another recommendation I'd offer is that if you only want/need better wireless, then just use an access point, not a router. An access point only extends the wired LAN, it doesn't usually do DHCP, routing, or NAT ... it's a wireless extension to the wired network. With an AP, or a device acting as an AP, the RG still provides all the DHCP addressing, and all the routing, NAT, and firewall functions. Setup is much simpler, usually only an SSID and security method. 

If you have a SOHO router for wireless, then you can turn off that router's DHCP and plug a LAN port (not the WAN port) into the RG, so the LAN traffic is propagated to the wireless domain, just like an AP. This is how the U-Verse techs have been instructed to install the Linksys  routers used to offload the RGs. In this configuration, Do Not plug a STB or DVR into a LAN port of the router (most do not support 802.1p). Some routers will still fight to provide some services, it's important that all services of the router be shut down, if possible.

If you plug the extra router's WAN port into the RG without activating the DMZ Plus mode, the router gets a "regular" address, and all the clients of the extra router get their DHCP addresses from the router (or you have to assign them as statics and shut down the DHCP on the router). There are potential problems with this setup becuase of the "double NAT" (first that the router, then at the RG) that can break some encryption ("https:" websites, some VPNs, etc), and block inbound connectivity from the RG's LAN (the routers WAN). It will also usually foul up UPnP-dependent traffic because it's only opening up the intermediate port (router WAN, not RG WAN).

If you activate the DHCP Plus mode, the router's WAN port *MUST* be set for DHCP, at least for the setup. When you initially plug in the DMZ router, it will get a "regular"  address from the RG. Once you activate DMZ Plus mode in the RG's Firewall Settings screen, you need to restart the router (or otherwise cause the router's WAN interface to reset so it'll pick up a new DHCP address). There is also a timeout from the RG for this interface cycle to occur; if it doesn't happen before the timeout (two minutes, I think), then the address reverts back to "regular" (internal).You'll know it worked if you see the same external address on both WAN interfaces (RG and Router).

In DMZ Plus mode, all inbound traffic is seen by both the RG and the router ... so you MUST use different inside address ranges for the U-Verse devices (STBs, DVRs) and the LAN devices (computers, consoles, etc). If both have the same range (like 192.168.1.x, 255.255.255.0) then you have a "routing conflict" and any continued operation is strictly a crap shoot (expect total failure). While the two networks appear as separates, all traffic is still passing through the RG. The "help" on 2Wire says something to the effect of " Any unspecified ports will be passed to the DMZ " which I interpret as if you had port 80 assigned in the RG forwarding table, port 80 WILL NOT be  passed to the DMZ device.This may or may not still be the case, I haven't checked lately and there has been several code pushes since I last played with it.

And again, the STBs and DVR should be directly connected to the RG, to connected to the RG through a SWITCH (no SOHO routers) that supports 802.1p (many/most/all recent GigE switches do).Any other devices can go to either the RG or the DMZ device, as desired. 

Also note that if you connect one or more STB or DVRs to a switch, all the multicast traffic to each STB/DVR will be flooded to all ports unless the switch supports and is properly configured for IGMP. While not usually overwhelming, this continued volume of multicast traffic can negatively impact some hosts.

[nwrickert]

---

1. What port on your RG do you have your router plugged into?

2. Is your router still acting as a DHCP server?  If so, what network is it serving up addresses on?  I wouldn't think that 192.168.1.* and 192.168.0.* conflict, but apparently they are because my setup didn't work.

3.  Does any of the above info make it clearer what I am doing wrong?

---

Port 1 of the RG is an ethernet cable to downstairs for serving TV.

Port 3 of the RG is the WAN connection from my router.

My router use 192.168.254.* for its LAN address range, and hands out DHCP addresses in that range.

When I initially connected the router, it picked up an IP of 192.168.1.66 (I think - it's been a while).  I set it for DMZplus, restarted the router, and it instead picked up the public IP.  There was no interruption to TV.  When I have connected other computers directly to the RG, they have mainly worked.  The "mainly" is because when I tried connecting my laptop, it got the "router behind router" warning.  I had to disable that warning in the RG before I could get that to work.  I only did that as a test.  I normally connect the laptop via WiFi to my own router.

No, I cannot see what you were doing wrong.  What you describe should have worked fine without cutting off the TV/DVR service.  I suppose it is possible that you have a defective RG.

Incidently, the "broadband" connection on the RG is apparently for peoply who have FTTP (fiber to the premises) and who therefore don't need to handle a DSL signal over a copper twisted pair connection.

[bdmayes]

ScottMac,

Thank you for your very detailed explanation.  I can assure you that my original configuration involved connecting the STBs and my blu-ray player directly to the RG.  This did not work for more than 12 hours.  After a phone call with AT&T/2wire support and no luck, they even sent out a tech to my house.  It wasn't until I plugged my STB into my router that BAM!...the orange screen disappeared and the TV stream appeared.

I read through your post and was determined to verify that you were wrong.  So I just plugged my STBs and directly into the RG.  The router is still connected to port 1 and assigned as the DMZplus host.  Then I have connected my 2 computers, my VOIP, and my blu-ray to my own router.  Amazingly...everything just works, and has been for about 10-15 minutes now.  I'll have to verify the long term stability but so far it seems to work.

I cannot explain this phenomemon as this is the EXACT setup that I had yesterday and it didn't work!  Even the tech that came out couldn't figure it out.  He was about to swap out my gateway (assuming it was broken) until I plugged by STB into my router and we got picture.  I still cannot seem to connect my blu-ray player to the RG (it never seems to obtain an address), but connecting to my router works just fine.

Very, very strange.  I now agree with the statement that setting the DMZplus host does not route *ALL* Internet traffic to this system.  I just cannot explain why things didn't work this way yesterday...

[bdmayes]

Thanks for the reply there nwrickert.  I agree...it doesn't seem like there is any difference between my setup and your setup (besides some digits).  The IP address ranges shouldn't conflict with each other and as I stated above, apparently they don't anymore.  Everything works perfectly now.  Unreal...

Thanks for the explanation of the broadband port too.  I was wondering what that port was for! 

Message Edited by bdmayes on 12-24-2009 12:56 PM

[ScottMac]

---

bdmayes wrote:

ScottMac,

Thank you for your very detailed explanation.  I can assure you that my original configuration involved connecting the STBs and my blu-ray player directly to the RG.  This did not work for more than 12 hours.  After a phone call with AT&T/2wire support and no luck, they even sent out a tech to my house.  It wasn't until I plugged my STB into my router that BAM!...the orange screen disappeared and the TV stream appeared.

I read through your post and was determined to verify that you were wrong.  So I just plugged my STBs and directly into the RG.  The router is still connected to port 1 and assigned as the DMZplus host.  Then I have connected my 2 computers, my VOIP, and my blu-ray to my own router.  Amazingly...everything just works, and has been for about 10-15 minutes now.  I'll have to verify the long term stability but so far it seems to work.

I cannot explain this phenomemon as this is the EXACT setup that I had yesterday and it didn't work!  Even the tech that came out couldn't figure it out.  He was about to swap out my gateway (assuming it was broken) until I plugged by STB into my router and we got picture.  I still cannot seem to connect my blu-ray player to the RG (it never seems to obtain an address), but connecting to my router works just fine.

Very, very strange.  I now agree with the statement that setting the DMZplus host does not route *ALL* Internet traffic to this system.  I just cannot explain why things didn't work this way yesterday...

---

I suspect that the router was operating in, or took the IP address block of, the RG ... which created some routing confusion.

If you see something like this happen again (and are curious), teh DVR/STB has a status screen (MENU | OPTIONS | System Options | Network Info)  that will show you the IP address of each box (compare it to the RG LAN address block and router address block).

Pushing and holding the STB/DVR power button for ~five seconds will restart the STB from scratch (without blowing out the boot-up code; it's like a power cycle). The IP address of the client STB/DVR does not matter, as long as it is known by and resides on the same LAN segment with, the RG. THis should be enough to get a new / reassigned IP address ... you DO NOT need to "DR" (Disaster Recover) the box (if you "DR" the DVR, all of your content will go away).

If you do this and get  red "x" or persistand two or three dots, then the boax can't see the U-Verse network (meaning it probably can't see the RG); likely a mis-configuration of the router, or a loop (multiple connections between the same devices / LAN segment is BAD ... massive traffic generation). It's possible to create a loop with one leg being wired, and the other being wireless ... if all the port lights come on and stay on, something evil is happening on your system (disconnect the last thing you plugged in before the system crashed).

Good Luck  

[bdmayes]

Thanks ScottMac.  Things are mostly working for me still.  I say mostly because certain channels do not work.  This STB is plugged directly into the RG.  I checked the system information as you suggested and it shows that the following info:

IP: 192.168.1.64

Default gateway: 192.168.1.254

Bps: 3145728

IPTV status: Connected

What do you mean by the router was "operating in, or took the IP address block of the RG"?  Currently if I hit my router configuration page I see that the Internet address is my actual IP address of my u-verse service.  The subnet mask is 255.255.252.0, the default gateway is 99.61.64.1, and the DNS1 entry is populated with 192.168.1.254 (which is the address of my RG).

When I open the RG's page and click on Broadband Link -> Summary I see that the Internet address is the same listed on my router's config page.  You are saying that is a problem?

In any case, it's weird because it seems to be working for some channels right now but not all of them.  I would expect that it to be all or nothing if there are IP address conflicts.

[bdmayes]

Sigh...I take it back.  TV service is once again down completely.  I just get the orange screen and nothing more.  Client initialization error will no doubt appear shortly.

I guess I'm going to reset the RG back to the defaults and either find some way to use it, or restart the entire configuration all over again.  This sucks.

[bdmayes]

Ok absolutely everything is set back to defaults and I am up and running again.  The gateway is up, the default wireless is on, the default IP addresses are in, and there are no switches, no routers, and nothing of that sort plugged in.

As of right now the only things that are plugged into the RG are the ethernet cables for the 2 TVs and a third ethernet cable for this one computer here (where I am typing).

So according to post #2 in this thread, I should follow the steps here:

http://utalk.att.com/utalk/board/message?board.id=HSIA&message.id=8149#M8149

If I understand the instructions there it basically says:

1) Configure my router to use 192.168.2.* addresses.

2) Configure my router to obtain an IP address through DHCP

3) Connect my router to the RG and when it brings up the prompt for DMZplus, go ahead and accept these changes (making my router the DMZ host)

Is that basically it?

Also, what does this particular page mean?  I go to the RG config page at 192.168.1.254 and click on Home Network -> Advanced Settings.  On the bottom of this page it has a section called "Public routed subinterface".  Is this the same thing as DMZplus?  If not, how are the two different?

[ScottMac]

What I meant above is that the router may be conflicting or stealing the internal LAN address block that the RG is (also) putting out (i.e., both are on 192.168.1.x) ... so the STBs are confused about where to talk to ... talking to the router, not the RG.

Make sure the router is issuing addresses from a different black (i.e. 192.168.10.x  and the RG is issuing 192.168.1.x)

[bdmayes]

Ah ok...yeah I definitely had that happening from the get go.  The RG handed out 192.168.1.* addresses.  My own router hands out 192.168.0.* addresses.  It seems like everyone else sets their own router to give out 192.168.2.* addresses.  I doubt that makes any difference at all though.

So today I can say that everything ran for 4 hours after I reconnected the TVs to the RG.  After about 4 hours it just all quit working again (though plugging the TVs into my own router worked again).

I am still curious what that public interface setting means.  It wasn't previously enabled even though DMZplus was so I have a suspicion that they are not equivalent.

I would just run with my setup from the initial post I made here, but I found out later that my wireless gets disconnected whenever the switch is connected (with active clients).  If I power down the devices attached to the switch or just unplug it from my router, the wireless clients can connect again.

So basically...I need to configure this so that:

a) I use my own wireless router AND connect the TVs to the RG; or

b) I suppose I can use the wireless from the RG, but connect my 8 port switch into the RG so that all of my wired devices will be able to connect.

Option (b) isn't ideal because it doesn't allow for QoS tweaks for VOIP, and the signal strength isn't as good.  Unfortunately it may be the only way that I can go because option (a) seems to have failed on me now -- twice.  Magically it works for everyone else apparently.

Message Edited by bdmayes on 12-24-2009 06:16 PM

[nwrickert]

---

bdmayes wrote:
I go to the RG config page at 192.168.1.254 and click on Home Network -> Advanced Settings.  On the bottom of this page it has a section called "Public routed subinterface".  Is this the same thing as DMZplus?  If not, how are the two different?

---

No, that's not the same as DMZplus.  Best not to change that section.  It is for when a user has a block of static IPs assigned.

[ScottMac]

---

bdmayes wrote:

Ah ok...yeah I definitely had that happening from the get go.  The RG handed out 192.168.1.* addresses.  My own router hands out 192.168.0.* addresses.  It seems like everyone else sets their own router to give out 192.168.2.* addresses.  I doubt that makes any difference at all though.

So today I can say that everything ran for 4 hours after I reconnected the TVs to the RG.  After about 4 hours it just all quit working again (though plugging the TVs into my own router worked again).

I am still curious what that public interface setting means.  It wasn't previously enabled even though DMZplus was so I have a suspicion that they are not equivalent.

I would just run with my setup from the initial post I made here, but I found out later that my wireless gets disconnected whenever the switch is connected (with active clients).  If I power down the devices attached to the switch or just unplug it from my router, the wireless clients can connect again.

So basically...I need to configure this so that:

a) I use my own wireless router AND connect the TVs to the RG; or

b) I suppose I can use the wireless from the RG, but connect my 8 port switch into the RG so that all of my wired devices will be able to connect.

Option (b) isn't ideal because it doesn't allow for QoS tweaks for VOIP, and the signal strength isn't as good.  Unfortunately it may be the only way that I can go because option (a) seems to have failed on me now -- twice.  Magically it works for everyone else apparently.

Message Edited by bdmayes on 12-24-2009 06:16 PM

---

"I would just run with my setup from the initial post I made here, but I found out later that my wireless gets disconnected whenever the switch is connected (with active clients). "

This makes me believe you either have a Layer Two loop (which causes a broadcast storm and overloads the broadcast domain) or conflicting IP addressing. Make sure that there is exactly one path between all hosts ... wireless and wired are equivelent if they both connect the same two places  (i.e. parallel lines between the same two dots ... there can only be one active path).

Check your addressing. If your router provides DHCP, verify that the subnet mask on both the RG and router are set for "255.255.255.0" (or sometimes noted as "/24") for the 192.168.(*).X addresses. The WAN address will have a different mask (I think you said it was 255.255.252.0, which is OK for the WAN side, but a Very Bad Thing for the LAN side (in this case).

Verify that the wireless is disabled on the RG. If you have any wireless bridges, shut 'em down for testing. If your router has advanced modes where it can act as a bridge and AP, make sure it is NOT actig as a client, or in bridge mode.

Verify that you aren't running a cable back to the same device (switch back to the switch, or RG to the RG) ... sometimes cables get mislabeled. 

Check that your cables are in good shape (i.e., not intermittently shorting with movement, causing a loop that causes a storm). 

Make sure your link speeds and duplex are the same on both ends of the switch<==>RG link; some devices will shut down ports if there are excessive errors (collisions in this case) ...the disabled port might be your cut-off, and the delay could be from the time it takes for the error count crossing the threshold).

Check your environmental conditions to ensure there is no excessive heat buildup, loose power connectors, flakey outlets, etc.

[bdmayes]

This is so incredibly frustrating, but I'm still at it because I know this is supposed to work!!!

Right now I decided to reset everything and start over.  So here is what I did:

1) Plugged in 2 desktop machines and my VOIP into my own router

2) Unplugged my router from the RG and reset the RG to its defaults by holding the reset button

3) Plugged in the 2 STBs into ports 2 and 3 of the RG, and a single laptop computer into port 4 (using the ethernet port)

4) Verified everything was configured and working properly on my laptop -- it seemed to run for several hours just fine

5) Using a desktop system that is connected to my router (but not the RG), I logged into my router's config page and set it up to use 192.168.2.* addresses with a netmask of 255.255.255.0.

6) Connected my router to port #1 on the RG

7) Opened my browser on a system connected behind my router and enabled DMZplus (which asked me to power cycle my router, then click done on the page).  As soon as I cycled the router and clicked done, the TV feed quit working and my screen went black.  The guide was still available, the info was still available, but there was no audio or video.

8) I held the power button down on one STB and it seemed to come up after the cycle -- though for some odd reason I can't get channel 1140 (Comedy Central HD) to work.  All other channels seem fine, including the SD version (channel 140).

9) Verified that all systems are up and running (with the exception of channel 1140).

I can promise you there is no loop anywhere in my network.  I guess one or more of the cables could be the problem though I doubt that.  There is certainly adequate ventilation around everything as well so that cannot be the issue.

Another strange thing I noticed was that while my STBs were not able to stream audio/video, I was able to connect to anything I wanted to on my laptop in port 4 of the RG.  The IP address was still the same and I could ping anything, connect to web sites, etc. Here was the ifconfig from that box:

$ ifconfig eth0 | head -n 2
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:1c:72:ce:29:ba 
          inet addr:192.168.1.67  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0

and now here is the ifconfig from the box I'm on right now (one of the desktop systems connected to my router):

$ ifconfig eth0 | head -n 2

eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:1f:d0:cf:d2:3f 
          inet addr:192.168.2.4  Bcast:192.168.2.255  Mask:255.255.255.0

You can see that both networks are using the 255.255.255.0 netmask.  As of right now, everything seems to be working except that I cannot get channel 1140 (there might be other channels missing but I haven't found any yet).  So I am happy it all works.  But then again, everything worked for about 4 hours earlier today until it randomly just quit.  I guess we'll see if it's still working in the morning and if the only problem is that 1140 doesn't work, then I'll call support later and take care of that.

Thanks for all of your help everyone.  I can assure you I am not doing anything stupid like running loops between the two routers.  I know for a fact they are plugged into the correct ports as well.  There is just something that is preventing this from working I guess.  I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but I did find this post just now:

http://utalk.att.com/utalk/board/message?board.id=HSIA&thread.id=11934

[ScottMac]

Everything you listed looks good. The channel 1140 thing might only be a tier drop, support should be able to rectify that. The only reason it would normall be blocked or mis-directed is if your firewall / router, or othe device blocked / stole / redirected the multicast address (starts with 239.x.x.x) of that channel.

Usually, you would enable DMZ Plus from a computer connected to the RG directly, but as long as you can get to the RG's firewall page and set it up, you should be good. 

If it fails again, please check to see that the DMZ Plus address (the external / public address on the WAN ports of both the RG and the Router agree and appear correct. 

Also check the address on the STB/DVR and compare it to the address in the RG's host list, again, the addresses should agree (if you see it more than once, you may need to uncheck the box for "show disconnected hosts."  Pay close attention to the Default Gateway ... in some instances, the DHCP info gets "confused" and you may have the right IP address, but the wrong DG (and maybe DNS) addresses. All are listed in the same screen as the STB/DVR/s IP address.

As an FYI: if you append "/mdc" to your RG's URL (http://gateway.2wire.net/mdc or http://192.168.1.254/mdc), it'll take you to the "Maintenance and Diagnostic" screen where you might find some additional helpful info (not sure if you knew this or not, so I thought I'd toss it in).

I'll check back in the morning, but them I'm on the road to Michigan to hang with the family for Christmas, so I'll be offline for a while.

Good Luck

[bdmayes]

Well it's now 9:30am on December 26 and I have been up and running for over a day now!  In fact, things have been running since around 11:45pm on December 24.  I initially had a problem with channel 1140, but that issue had cleared itself up by the time I woke up on Christmas morning.  So Merry Christmas to me!  (NOTE:  Channel 1140 was the channel that I was currently watching when I hit "Done" to setup DMZplus -- so I think the reason that 1140 didn't work had something to do with the fact that I was tuned to that channel when setting all of this up).

I am not sure what I did differently this time besides using 192.168.2.* addresses on my own router.  Actually, I initially set it up on December 24 to use 192.168.2.* addresses, but once I woke up Christmas morning and realized that everything was still working (after about 8 hours), I took the chance and reconfigured my own router to hand out 192.168.0.* addresses.  Here we are another ~25 hours after that change and things are still running smoothly.  I am not sure what went wrong the first two times I set all of this up.

Thank you so much ScottMac and nwrickert.  If I had to sum things up, I would say these are the steps I would give someone else trying to set this up:

1) Start with RG that is using the default setup (192.168.1.254, wireless on, etc.).

2) Plug in the STBs into the desired ports and then a single computer into another port (do not yet plug in your own router).  I made sure to turn off my wireless capabilities on the system, to ensure that it was ONLY connected to the RG at this point (as opposed to connecting to the RG through wired ethernet, and the router via wireless).

3) Verify everything is working properly (all STBs work, your computer works, etc.).  I had this running for several hours before continuing.

4) Use a system that is connected to your own router (not the RG), log into the router's config page and set it up to use 192.168.2.* addresses with a netmask of 255.255.255.0.

5) Connect the WAN (or Internet port) of the router to a free LAN port on the RG.

6) Open a browser on the system connected to the RG, browse around between a few different pages, and wait for it to complain about a router behind a router.

7) Enable DMZplus on the browser page (which will ask you to power cycle your router, then click  the "done" button on the page).

8) Verify that everything is still working for all devices (your computer and STBs connected to the RG) as well as the systems connected to your router (which should now be connecting to the Internet and anything else you want).

9) Disconnect the computer from the RG and plug it into your router (or just have it connect to wireless, whatever the case may be).

Now enjoy!  Like I said, at this point after I was satisfied that everything was working I reconfigured my router back to 192.168.0.* addresses, but that is just because I am so used to it and therefore wanted them setup this way.  If you don't ever do anything using IP addresses within your own network then you probably don't care what addresses your router hands out, and you can leave the setup as-is.

Now that everything is finally up and running, I am very pleased with this service.  The U-verse TV definitely blows Time Warner cable out of the water.  And having Internet with triple the upload speeds isn't so bad either. 

Thanks again ScottMac and nwrickert.

[nwrickert]

I'm glad you now have it working the way you want.

And, yes, I am also very happy with u-verse.

[Hari_Seldon]

I had the exact same issue as bdmayes (with the same router) - I replaced my router behind the RG and the DVR became stuck on the Orange Screen of Death (sometime later, not immediately).  Uverse phone support was unhelpful.

I followed your steps exactly to start from scratch by resetting the RG, and now I'm back up.  It appears that it is best to start clean with the RG rather than try to recover from conflicting IP addresses.

Thank you bdmayes, ScottMac and nwrickert for the detailed steps and explanations.  

-HS 

[bdmayes]

Glad I could help Hari, but don't get your hopes up too much.  After running successfully for about 3 weeks, the TVs just randomly cut out again one day.  The only way to resolve the issue was to press and hold the reset button on the RG and let it go back to defaults. Absolutely nothing changed -- I can promise you of that.  I didn't want to go through all of the configuration again and my wife has no clue how to do any of it.  We are the only ones that would have had access to the network.

I finally just gave up.  I am using the wireless built into the RG.  The only problem I am having is that I can't hit my own http server (see http://utalk.att.com/utalk/board/message?board.id=HSIA&message.id=5495&query.id=94176#M5495).  I have a Facebook application I am writing for my master's thesis.  The application is hosted on my home system so I can reach the intro page just fine.  But when it attempts to connect to the next page, I am running into this problem where it won't route back to the system on my local network (even though it's going through a dyndns redirect).

I have to say that I am pretty disappointed with this 2wire stuff.  It shouldn't be any stretch of the imagination that some people would want to use their own router!  I hate the built-in one but I am using it for now since using my own router seems to be impossible.

[bsdsmb]

bdmayes -

I saw someone ask it earlier (indirectly) but I saw now response.  You should not be having continued stability issues, so I woud suggest something is still amiss.

Is it possible that you have the wireless on both your Linksys Router and your RG enabled and on the same SSID with the same security key?  If that is the case - it is quite possible that you are bridging both of your networks (the 192.168.1.0/24 and the 192.168.2.0/24) subnet - which in turn is probably then introducing two problems - a) a possible broadcast storm or loop between the two networks, and 2) your DHCP servers from both routers can be visible to clients when they make DHCP requests.  Odds are, the faster device will win - but here again - you will get really squirelly results.

I would encourage careful reading of the links others have provided in how to configure DMZ Plus or router behind router setups.  They do work, they are robust and reliable.

I am sorry to hear you are having such difficulty, but looking at the original post - there has been quite a history of slightly incorrect information and resultant incorrect configuration through this trial and error setup.

[bdmayes]

@bsdsmb:

No, I did not have both routers broadcasting the same SSID.  The RG had the normal "2WIRE###" name while my own router broadcasts the SSID called "OPTIMUSPRIME"  (named that way long before the awful Transformers movie came out by the way).  Furthermore, the RG handed out 192.168.1.* addresses while my own router hands out 192.168.0.* addresses.  Finally, and probably most importantly -- I disabled the wireless on the RG anyway so it wasn't even broadcasting an SSID (regardless of what it's name was) and therefore wasn't even servicing DHCP clients.

The only conclusion I came come to is that my RG must be bad.  And to my knowledge there is no "inaccurate information" in any of my posts except for something that I copied directly out of 2wire's documentation (stating that enabling DMZ Plus routes *all* internet traffic to the DMZ host).  Everything I authored has been accurate. 

[Hari_Seldon]

Thanks for the update.  I think if that happens to me I will probably cancel my Uverse TV service.  

I started out using the RG's built in switch and wireless access point.  I then started having issues where the DVR could not record even one show and watch another without glitches/tearing/pixelation in both viewed and recorded video.  After speaking with tier 2 support I was told I had too many computers connecting to the wireless AP, which interrupts the RG processor and results in glitchy recording on the DVR.  They recommended that I use a separate wireless router for my PC network, and only connect my DVR directly to the RG.

Basically, AT&T told me I had to add my own wireless router if I wanted to be able to use the DVR.  Unfortunately they didn't tell me how to set it up.  

So if I can't fix the conflicts via these forums (and I know that dealing AT&T support will be non-productive) then I'll probably just have to cancel TV service.

One more gripe - Why does the DVR present an Orange Screen and become unresponsive in the error state?  You'd think it would present a debug screen that gave more information about the current network status?  Perhaps this is available to installers.

Finally - At CES this year I believe they announced that MS & UVerse will finally turn on Mediaroom support on the XBOX 360 and Windows 7 PC's (meaning you can view UVerse content from these devices).  I wonder if this will work with my current network segregation between the DVR and my computers/Xbox. 

[spd2demun ACE - Master]

The orange screen getting stuck is new, has been happening here and trying to see if it's a possible dying DVR.   You may be having the same problem.

Not sure I'm buying that answer they gave that too many computers on the RG.  Our 4 Ethernet ports are filled with Xbox, AirPort Extreme, DVR...

There is talk about Xbox being allowed as a STB by ATT (for a couple of years), and last post I saw, sounds like now they just have to decide if/what they'll charge for access.

[dsltode]

Here are some reasons why doing your own router is desirable.

* The 2wire box doesnt do QOS or packet scheduling. I have been on the phone to 2wire tech support and verified that nothing is new.

* 2wire allows every IPS to arbitrarily modify the product causing inconsistency and proprietary lock-in.

* I want to run a layer 2 packet scheduler. I have my reasons; the effect is awesome.

* Vonage trumps AT&T VOIP if you have friends in other countries and like to call them for free.

* My wiring closet is not the ideal location for the Wireless Access Point and I don't believe in all-in-1 products having had years of other bad experiences.

I also don't like that the 3800hgv is an energy-star 36 watt failure that's going to cost me a bundle to run. My old cable modem drew 6 watts. But for now, the UVerse TV deal is better than Charter. I have no love for either company but if the cable deal gets better (and that means, new physical plant in my area) - I will definitely go back. Cable providers are more flexible.

[qumis]

---

texasguy37 wrote:

The thread below explains how you can use your own wireless router with the U-verse Residential Gateway.

http://utalk.att.com/utalk/board/message?board.id=HSIA&message.id=8149#M8149

---

This link no longer works. I haven't had much luck finding the instructions. Does someone have them that they can repost. I am having even less luck getting my router into DMZ+ mode.

Thanks in advance for your help