HDMI Cables

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

Friday night I had a talk with an AT&T tech about the problems some people have with HDMI cables.  I have wondered for quite awhile if there are different pin configurations either in different cables themselves or on the different brands and makes of televisions?  Some people use the hdmi cables with no problems and others have to disconnect them and use the component cables.  We even discussed a receiver that he was considering buying that would allow him to plug in his hdmi cable and the unit would act as an hdmi to component adaptor.  He wanted to do this so that he could see the 1080i on his television that doesn't have an hdmi input but does have component in.  He bought a 6 dvd player that has hdmi out, that is how the conversation came up.

He was told that there are different kinds of hdmi cables or hdmi cables that are either used for different purposes and or applications.  This kind of doesn't make sense to me, but I didn't rule it out because of the varying results people have using them.  I have also wondered if there is an hdmi incompatibility issue with the UV stbs and some televisions for this very reason.

Right now it doesn't make sense as to why some tvs work fine using the hdmi inputs and others don't. 

[randyl]

HDMI devices are manufactured to adhere to various versions of the specification, where each version is given a number such as 1.0, 1.2, or 1.3a.^[12] Each subsequent version of the specification uses the same kind of cable but increases the bandwidth and/or capabilities of what can be transmitted over the cable.^[12] For example the previous maximum pixel clock rate of HDMI interface was 165 MHz which was sufficient for supporting 1080p at 60 Hz and WUXGA (1920x1200) at 60 Hz. HDMI 1.3 increased that to 340 MHz which allows for higher resolution, such as WQXGA (2560x1600), across

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI          probably more a  brand specific and age of equipment problem  imho

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

Since a lot of the posts I have read involved the use of a relatively new television 0 - 2 years old, the problem must be brand specific.  I am very interested in the benefits of using hdmi and I think a considerable amount of leg work is in my future, to get the proper information on the hdmi configuration or specs of television I plan to buy and its compatability with the UV stbs.

Do you think the problem with some people not being able to use hdmi is because of clock rate issues?

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randyl wrote:

HDMI devices are manufactured to adhere to various versions of the specification, where each version is given a number such as 1.0, 1.2, or 1.3a.^[12] Each subsequent version of the specification uses the same kind of cable but increases the bandwidth and/or capabilities of what can be transmitted over the cable.^[12] For example the previous maximum pixel clock rate of HDMI interface was 165 MHz which was sufficient for supporting 1080p at 60 Hz and WUXGA (1920x1200) at 60 Hz. HDMI 1.3 increased that to 340 MHz which allows for higher resolution, such as WQXGA (2560x1600), across

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI          probably more a  brand specific and age of equipment problem  imho

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[randyl]

handshake  :  thus the what gets turned on first sequence work around  ...

[hpmsrm]

Verrrry interesting.  Thanks Randy.  We've been lucky with using the HDMI interconnection BUT....have had occasional problems with the "handshake".  For the past couple of months we've been getting along pretty well by just leaving the DVR turned on 24/7.  Then AT&T did something which has been causing our DVR to go to sleep sometime during the night.....even if we left it turned on.  We are still doing ok by just turning on the TV by itself.....and it comes up with the blue screen and a message to push the "OK" button on the remote.  That has worked every time so far.   Anyway.....good info.

Phil

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

So if I have this right, when you are using hdmi you should turn the tv on first and wait unitl it is completely up.  Then turn on the stb and that should enable the tv and stb to function properly through the hdmi cable?

[awhited74]

The HDMI handshake issue was very common early on. I think that now it has gotten somewhat better. The manufacturers who use the HDMI format are supposed to adhere to the HDMI specs, but they can choose to support certain features of whatever ver. HDMI they choose; ie PS3. http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/05/08/does-the-ps3-really-have-hdmi-13/

Here are a couple of good reads about the HDMI handshake issue.

http://www.videsignline.com/howto/198900437

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdmi1.htm

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

Very informatvie articles but my question is what can I do or check to find out if the hdmi input on a hdtv that I buy is compatable with the hdmi on the uv stb?  It is not a really big deal because there is alway component.

[awhited74]

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RCSMG wrote:
Very informatvie articles but my question is what can I do or check to find out if the hdmi input on a hdtv that I buy is compatable with the hdmi on the uv stb?  It is not a really big deal because there is alway component.

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They are all "SUPPOSED" to be compatible! And there is no way of testing if an HDTV you buy will work with the UV stb until you get the HDTV home. Unless, you take your stb up to the store with a really long ethernet cable connected and plug the stb into the HDTV you would like to buy and see if it works or not. I think some if not all of the handshake issues may be due to HDCP chip that are not up to spec. Seems like some components do not provide the response within the alloted time that is required for the handshake to be finalized. That is when you start to get the error messages. This quote directly from the HDMI white paper on avoiding handshake problems.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Why are we here?

Historically speaking, most HDCP handshake problems can be traced back to missing infrastructure.

Peer-reviewed test equipment and certification procedures are critical to any new technology.

Unfortunately, in the case of HDCP, these came late. As a result, most products in the field today are

non-compliant and interoperability problems abound.

 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have posted, e-mailed ATT, e-mailed Moto asking what ver HDMI the vip 1216 uses. And it seems that no one knows or can not tell me.

Message Edited by awhited74 on 08-02-2008 10:15 PM

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

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awhited74 wrote:

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RCSMG wrote:
Very informatvie articles but my question is what can I do or check to find out if the hdmi input on a hdtv that I buy is compatable with the hdmi on the uv stb?  It is not a really big deal because there is alway component.

---

They are all "SUPPOSED" to be compatible! And there is no way of testing if an HDTV you buy will work with the UV stb until you get the HDTV home. Unless, you take your stb up to the store with a really long ethernet cable connected and plug the stb into the HDTV you would like to buy and see if it works or not. I think some if not all of the handshake issues may be due to HDCP chip that are not up to spec. Seems like some components do not provide the response within the alloted time that is required for the handshake to be finalized. That is when you start to get the error messages. This quote directly from the HDMI white paper on avoiding handshake problems.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Why are we here?

Historically speaking, most HDCP handshake problems can be traced back to missing infrastructure.

Peer-reviewed test equipment and certification procedures are critical to any new technology.

Unfortunately, in the case of HDCP, these came late. As a result, most products in the field today are

non-compliant and interoperability problems abound.

 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have posted, e-mailed ATT, e-mailed Moto asking what ver HDMI the vip 1216 uses. And it seems that no one knows or can not tell me.

Message Edited by awhited74 on 08-02-2008 10:15 PM

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I like what you wrote in this post because now I can look at more than just some people can use hdmi and some can't.  It wasn't making sense to me at all.  I wondered if it was incompatability issues with the type of hdtvs, or the cables used (although I really doubted that).  It would be great if we could get the ver of hdmi that the 1216 uses, then we could find out if there is any kind of electronics available to correct the compatability issues and get most if not all hdtvs working with hdmi.  There are blu-ray dvd players that use hdmi to connect to hdtvs.  It would be a drag to go out an buy one and you can't use the hdmi output because it is a different version of hdmi than that on the tv.

And that is this country for you.  They won't standardize a format that works across the board.  There are 16 or 18 kinds of high definition but because of money the manufacturers have come out with their own and the casualties are the consumer.  Just like the issue with hd dvd and blu-ray.  Those who went out and bought hd dvd players are orphaned with dead technology and those who went with blu-ray aren't.  So now it is happening with hdtvs, some can use equipment that utilizes the hdmi circiuitry of some manufacturers and others don't.  Only In America!!!!

[randyl]

per  RC  ==    Only In America!!!!

so where are the tvs u are looking at buying made ? 

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

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randyl wrote:

per  RC  ==    Only In America!!!!

so where are the tvs u are looking at buying made ? 

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The statement I made is about the unwillingness or inability for this country to pick a format and make it the national standard.  For example high definition tv, and dvcam and dvc pro tape formats.  Actually I know what the reason is, $$$$$.  Sony has a standard, Panasonic has one, and 12 or 14 other companies have one.  But in this format/standard war the casualties are the consumers.

The place or at least the headquarters of the company that I will be buying my tv from is in Japan, fyi the tv might be made here in the USA.  I don't know why you are asking me this though.