Is the 19 Mbps Profile Being Used as a Cop-Out?

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

I've been seeing a lot of posts lately here and at UverseUsers.com involving people with the 19 Mbps profile who are within the distance where the 19 Mbps profile shouldn't be necessary.  In at least one instance, the stats from the person in question look like they should be able to get the 25 Mbps profile if their line was properly conditioned.

This is leading me to believe that there have been some instances where U-Verse premises techs have been installing customers on the 19 Mbps profile as a convenience rather than a necessity.

As most of us are aware, the 19 Mbps profile is specifically designed to be used when the customer's line is too far from the VRAD to be able to get a signal with enough headroom to run the 25 Mbps profile.  Generally, this means if the RG sync rate with the VRAD is less than around 33 Mbps, the 25 Mbps profile will not run properly, resulting in picture freezes and pixelation, uncorrected blocks, and retrains/resets.

There is alot that goes into properly conditioning a POTS line to properly run U-Verse.  Any one or multiple of the following factors might need to be fixed for a line to properly carry U-Verse:

• Proper grounding at the NID
• Proper grounding at the pedestal or pole
• Removal of bridge taps
• Replacing old drops that may be corroded, have insulation breaks, or too thin gauge wire
• Doing a Cat5e home run from the NID to the RG
• Proper grounding of the RG power supply
• Replacing the balun/VDSL splitter (they go bad all the time)

These items can take several service calls and tickets with U-Verse premises techs and with I&R to fix, thus they are complex, inconvenient, and take a lot of time and resources.

When I had U-Verse installed in September 2007, my initial installation had a 33 Mbps sync rate at 2700' from the VRAD, which is low.  It took 3 premises techs, 2 I&R techs, and several open tickets to finally find and remove a bridge tap that was 100' from my NID.  (When a bridge tap is very close to the NID or very close to the VRAD, they're much harder to detect).  When the bridge tap was removed, my sync rate shot up to 52 Mbps.

AT&T did not have or offer a 19 Mbps profile at the time I was installed, but if they had, I'm virtually certain I would have been told "your line is too noisy, you have to be on the 19 Mbps profile which limits you to 1HD channel".

My conclusion is that some premises techs are not doing the proper tests and calling the proper groups (I&R) to condition people's lines like they should.  This is resulting in some people getting the more restrictive service provided by the 19 Mbps profile when their line would easily be capable of running the 25 Mbps profile if it was properly conditioned.

My advice to those people who are told at installation that they are being set up on the 19 Mbps profile is to not take that at face value.  Ask questions: How far am I from the VRAD? (In most cases, if you're less than 3000', you should be able to get a 25 Mbps profile with a properly conditioned line).  Is there a bridge tap on my line?  Is everything properly grounded?  Can we call I&R to check the line?

What are your thoughts?  Do you think the 19 Mbps profile is allowing techs to be lazy?

[mibrnsurg ACE - Geek]

Previously, even early this summer up to my and past my install on 7/15, people at the limit were being turned down and ATT came up with this 19M profile.  I think they set that up only in locations when they can not get a 25M signal to sync, even if they sync at 22M it's still not enough for 2/2, so they put them on the 19M 1/3 profile.  Now after having said that, ATT should give them a lower price or promo until they can get the 25M (or higher in the future-as now my max sync is 114M from 64-65M previously).  I don't think the techs are being lazy, they are giving people Uverse that previously were being turned down totally.

Chris

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I want Good weather w/radar & 6 day forecast -coming soon!
I want CBET Channel 9 Please NO SD stretch-o-vision HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition

[showtime48 ACE - Guru]

maybe both, don't know. do prem techs have the equipment to detect a bridge tap? i called one night and had a bridge tap on my line the next day when the tech was here their wasn't one or so he said...

DSL			Down		Up
Current Rate:			25216 kbs		2048 kbs
Max Rate:			41264 kbs		Not Available
Current Connection:
	Current Noise Margin:		16.0 dB		Not Available
	Current Attenuation:		25.9 dB		Not Available
	Current Output Power:		12.9 dBm		-2.9 dBm

1800' from vrad

Message Edited by showtime48 on 11-14-2008 12:27 AM

[spd2demun ACE - Master]

How about they just don't KNOW any better?

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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showtime48 wrote:

maybe both, don't know. do prem techs have the equipment to detect a bridge tap? i called one night and had a bridge tap on my line the next day when the tech was here their wasn't one or so he said...

DSL   Down   Up
Current Rate:   25216 kbs   2048 kbs
Max Rate:   41264 kbs   Not Available
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:   16.0 dB   Not Available
Current Attenuation:   25.9 dB   Not Available
Current Output Power:   12.9 dBm   -2.9 dBm

1800' from vrad

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Neither the prem techs nor the L1/L2 customer service techs have the equipment to verify the existence of a bridge tap, only I&R has those units.  However, the line parameters that the RG can measure as well as the hand-held VDSL meter that the prem techs have can give them some general feelings that the line may need further checking.

For example, your line above looks marginal to me.  At only 1800' from the VRAD, your sync rate should be higher than 41 Mbps, the noise margin looks low, the attenuation looks high, and the transmit power levels look high, which indicates the VRAD and RG are attempting to compensate for the noise.  I would wager your line could be conditioned to perform better.  If I was a prem tech, I would have I&R come check your line (after I checked all the simple stuff like grounding, balun, etc.)

[showtime48 ACE - Guru]

my max rate was down to 35...

[randyl]

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showtime48 wrote:
my max rate was down to 35...

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       time to move  ne way

[lengyelc]

While we're doing these free assessments online, I want in.

The tech originally told me I "barely" made the 25 Mbps profile when I had installed.  I am ~2500' from the VRAD.

Here are my vitals:

DSL  Down  Up
Current Rate:  25216 kbs   2048 kbs 
Max Rate:  34724 kbs   Not Available
Current Connection:
 Current Noise Margin:  13.5 dB   Not Available
 Current Attenuation:  30.6 dB   Not Available
 Current Output Power:  13.0 dBm   2.1 dBm 

I don't seem to have any problems with pixelation or loss of signal.  Do my stats forewarn me that I should be concerned?

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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lengyelc wrote:

While we're doing these free assessments online, I want in.

The tech originally told me I "barely" made the 25 Mbps profile when I had installed.  I am ~2500' from the VRAD.

Here are my vitals:

DSL  Down  Up
Current Rate:  25216 kbs   2048 kbs 
Max Rate:  34724 kbs   Not Available
Current Connection:
 Current Noise Margin:  13.5 dB   Not Available
 Current Attenuation:  30.6 dB   Not Available
 Current Output Power:  13.0 dBm   2.1 dBm 

I don't seem to have any problems with pixelation or loss of signal.  Do my stats forewarn me that I should be concerned?

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Probably not, if you're not having issues.  Your line looks line your a long way from the VRAD, or possible on thin-gauge wire (there's a lot of attenuation).  What do your corrected/uncorrected blocks stats look like?  If there's not too many uncorrected, you're probably fine.

Now, of course, if they want to raise the standard profile rate at a later time, who knows?

[lengyelc]

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SomeJoe7777 wrote:

What do your corrected/uncorrected blocks stats look like?  If there's not too many uncorrected, you're probably fine.

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I had to reboot 2 days ago as I upped my internet speed.  But so far so good.  No uncorrected, and corrected are:

Collected for 2 days 6:09:05

DSL  Since Reset  Current 24-Hour Interval  Current 15-Minute Interval  Time Since
Last Event

Corrected Blocks:  12038  42  0  2:59:40

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SomeJoe7777 wrote:

Now, of course, if they want to raise the standard profile rate at a later time, who knows?

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Yeah that's my concern.  I hate not being invited to parties!

[gamegurou]

I know this is an old post, but I just doing some digging on SomeJoe's comment for 'thin guage' lines and this went beyond my expectations as an EXCELLENT informative post.

[Taylarie]

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to post your comments and opinions related to this topic. This topic has been thoroughly discussed and will now be closed.