Possible New iNID

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

I was browsing through my line stats database today and saw something interesting.

I have about 25 iNID (i3812V) entries in the database, all of them are hardware version 2700-000679-004, which is a variant of what's in the standard 3800HGV-B router.

But today, there's an odd one in there:  An iNID that has hardware version 000705-004, which is a variant of the hardware version used for the new 3801HGV (newer RG, hardware version 000778-004).

It would appear that there may be a new revision of the iNID being looked at or tested, which has the newer chipset in it that the 3801HGVs have.  This may continue to improve the iNID's pair-bonding service, which appears subject to several little issues that are sometimes not easy to correct.

Anyhow, I thought it was interesting.  The line stats database in general is picking up some unusual things, including 5 people who have or are testing 3801HGV routers.

[mibrnsurg ACE - Geek]

I saw over in UU Employee section they posted they will only use up the current iNids as there is a problem and a redesign will occur to fix the problem.

Chris

____________________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-866-465-1496 for direct TS to avoid Mr. Voice recognition
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

[trparky]

Dumb question... if they know that these iNIDs have a major flaw why continue to use them?  Doesn't make sense.  Why not chuck them into digital trash bin?

Oh wait, did AT&T buy a crap load of these?  There's an answer for that dilemma.  Make 2Wire buy them all back.

[mibrnsurg ACE - Geek]

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trparky wrote:

Dumb question... if they know that these iNIDs have a major flaw why continue to use them?  Doesn't make sense.  Why not chuck them into digital trash bin?

Oh wait, did AT&T buy a crap load of these?  There's an answer for that dilemma.  Make 2Wire buy them all back.

---

tparky, you should know it's SOP for ATT to just use what they have, even if possibly defective.  They did it with the old splitters, some were still being installed, even after ATT knew they were the problem.

Chris

_________________________________________________________________________

Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-866-465-1496 for direct TS to avoid Mr. Voice recognition
Your Results May Vary, In My Humble Opinion
I Call It Like I See It, Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

[spd2demun ACE - Master]

And they'll spend more $ in the end with truck rolls to unhappy customers to replace the equipment. 

[trparky]

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spd2demun wrote:

And they'll spend more $ in the end with truck rolls to unhappy customers to replace the equipment. 

---

That's what makes no sense and has never made any sense with AT&T!

You know what else doesn't make any sense?  I'll tell you.

Take your typical copper lines found in your typical "older" neighborhood, you know... the lines that Mr. Squirrel has been dining on for the last fifty years or more.  One of the biggest issues that uVerse runs into is the fact that the lines are bad and because the lines are bad the services barely work or it doesn't work at all.  Then they come up with ways to hack around these issues (*cough* pair bonding *cough*) where if they simply replaced all the copper lines the uVerse service would work better from the start, they wouldn't have to keep coming up with hacks to make it work on marginal lines (*cough* pair bonding *cough*), and finally, no more REDOs!!!!

I hear over on the uVerse Users Forum in which employees are complaining about 60 hour work weeks and mandated overtime.  I have to ask how many of those jobs are for REDOs either being service troubleshooting or fixing bad installs.  I can't imagine how much money is wasted on REDOs whereas if things were done right the first time they wouldn't be having all those REDOs and second you'll be having far more happy customers.

But, this situation we have now is what you get when companies live and breathe by the spreadsheets.  IDIOTS!  COMPLETE IDIOTS!

[showtime48 ACE - Guru]

where do you find this stuff Joe? probably won't understand it but you never know so i wouldn't mind looking and why is it you don't work for 2wire?...

http://www.2wire.com/index.php?p=436

[Glynne]

trparky, I can think of two ways this makes sense.

1) In the corporate world they only see the next quarter and how they can make a profit for it.  Never much farther then that.  Same for the jerk (I'd get banned for the right word here) that runs AT&T.  He cheapens everything out that way he gets his bonus.  The heck with the company long term!  He, like politicians, will be gone by then leaving that problems to someone else.

2) The overtime and plenty of workers makes the unions happy.  Has nothing to do with efficiency or how well the job is done.  Just cash for the unions.

So they have their machine running just the way they want it.  The heck with the customers.  A little cynical, eh?

Glynne

[trparky]

Yeah well, that's the problem with companies these days.

What kind of bonus will I get this quarter?  Will the shareholders be happy?

Yeah, so the company is going down the tubes and what does the CEO get?  Oh yeah, that golden parachute in which he still gets tons of cash while the people below him gets screwed over.  Yay capitalism!

The whole kind of thinking that companies in the US have is one of the many reasons why we as a nation are in this economic mess that we're in.

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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showtime48 wrote:

where do you find this stuff Joe? probably won't understand it but you never know so i wouldn't mind looking and why is it you don't work for 2wire?...

---

I'm quite happy in my current job ...

[ScottMac]

iNIDs are not used to improve marginal lines, they are used to extend the service a greater distance, and ultimately will be used to expand the bitrate to customers currently out at the edge with lower bitrates..

Pretty much anything said on the UU Employees forum can be taken with a mountain of salt ... it's the same few people perpetually complaining. Most of the folks I know that work for AT&T /U-Verse are happy, competent, customer-focused, (frequently Union) folks.

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trparky wrote:

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spd2demun wrote:

And they'll spend more $ in the end with truck rolls to unhappy customers to replace the equipment. 

---

That's what makes no sense and has never made any sense with AT&T!

You know what else doesn't make any sense?  I'll tell you.

Take your typical copper lines found in your typical "older" neighborhood, you know... the lines that Mr. Squirrel has been dining on for the last fifty years or more.  One of the biggest issues that uVerse runs into is the fact that the lines are bad and because the lines are bad the services barely work or it doesn't work at all.  Then they come up with ways to hack around these issues (*cough* pair bonding *cough*) where if they simply replaced all the copper lines the uVerse service would work better from the start, they wouldn't have to keep coming up with hacks to make it work on marginal lines (*cough* pair bonding *cough*), and finally, no more REDOs!!!!

I hear over on the uVerse Users Forum in which employees are complaining about 60 hour work weeks and mandated overtime.  I have to ask how many of those jobs are for REDOs either being service troubleshooting or fixing bad installs.  I can't imagine how much money is wasted on REDOs whereas if things were done right the first time they wouldn't be having all those REDOs and second you'll be having far more happy customers.

But, this situation we have now is what you get when companies live and breathe by the spreadsheets.  IDIOTS!  COMPLETE IDIOTS!

---

[jmw2800]

I was activated on Saturday with pair bonding and an INID. I have the 000705-004 version and the

smaller i3812V RG. I have a interleave service as follows:

User Rate

25307 kbs

1420 kbs

I am about 4000 feet from the VRAD according to the techs meter. My DSL links have remained

solid and have not retrained since installation 50 hours ago. I am grateful to have service in my

older neighborhood (1960's vintage).

Jeff

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

---

jmw2800 wrote:

I was activated on Saturday with pair bonding and an INID. I have the 000705-004 version and the

smaller i3812V RG. I have a interleave service as follows:

User Rate

25307 kbs

1420 kbs

I am about 4000 feet from the VRAD according to the techs meter. My DSL links have remained

solid and have not retrained since installation 50 hours ago. I am grateful to have service in my

older neighborhood (1960's vintage).

Jeff

---

That's excellent.  Nice to know that your service is working well at 4000', and you have a solid 25/1.5 profile.

Can you please run U-Verse Realtime (available at www.uverserealtime.com) so that your line stats can be added to my database?  The more of these newer iNIDs get in there, the better.

[jmw2800]

I ran it Saturday night for about 10 minutes. What do I need to do to have it update your

database?

Jeff

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

If you've already run it, then it should already have reported, and will already be in the database.

Thanks for your info.

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

---

jmw2800 wrote:

I was activated on Saturday with pair bonding and an INID. I have the 000705-004 version and the

smaller i3812V RG. I have a interleave service as follows:

User Rate

25307 kbs

1420 kbs

I am about 4000 feet from the VRAD according to the techs meter. My DSL links have remained

solid and have not retrained since installation 50 hours ago. I am grateful to have service in my

older neighborhood (1960's vintage).

Jeff

---

Welcome to Uverse.

[trparky]

Wait, isn't that supposed to be a 25/2 profile... not 25/1.5?

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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trparky wrote:

Wait, isn't that supposed to be a 25/2 profile... not 25/1.5?

---

I believe the proper (i.e. the designed) profile for iNID installations is actually 25/1.5.

iNID lines are (supposed to) be provisioned differently than normal single-line installations on a 3800HGV-B, 3801HGV, or 3600HGV.  Normally, the VDSL2 frequency allocation (also called the "band plan") is as follows:

Downstream 1: 0.138 MHz - 3.75 MHz

Upstream 1: 3.75 MHz - 5.2 MHz

Downstream 2: 5.2 MHz - 8.5 MHz

This is a standard VDSL allocation and band plan, known as G993.2 allocation 8d, band plan 998.

For the iNID, the upstream band 1 is assumed to not be available due to distance, so the pair-bonded lines follow a different band plan that looks like this:

Upstream 0: 0.026 MHz - 0.138 MHz

Downstream 1: 0.138 MHz - 3.75 MHz

This is G993.2, allocation 8d, with a modified band plan 998.  (For convenience, I'm going to call it band plan 998a).

I have 36 iNIDs in the database.  9 of them have line profiles that are approximately 25/2.  Of those 9, 5 of them are using lines that are not provisioned properly for the iNID.  Instead of their lines using band plan 998a as intended for the iNID, they're using 998.  This allows them to use upstream band 1 instead of upstream band 0 and contributes to their ability to increase the upstream profile rate.  Furthermore, these lines have upstream power levels in the 6-7 dBm range which is well above the other iNIDs.  So I believe these 25/2 lines are actually not proper iNID installations.

The remaining 27 iNIDs are all using 998a lines, and nearly all of them have a resulting profile near 25/1.5.  These lines also have an upstream power level of approximately -0.5 dBm, which is 6-7 dBm lower than the other 9 lines.  I assume this is done to reduce cross-talk.  I believe these are proper iNID installations.

The 1.5 Mbps upstream profile limitation is also the likely reason that the highest internet package available to iNID users is the 12/1.  18/1.5 would not run properly with a 25/1.5 line profile.

[trparky]

Yeah, but I thought you need the upload speed to be able to handle the higher download speeds due to the fact that you have to factor in the standard TCP/IP handshake in which if you don't have enough upstream your downstream is limited because ACK packets aren't getting to the endpoint fast enough.

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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trparky wrote:

Yeah, but I thought you need the upload speed to be able to handle the higher download speeds due to the fact that you have to factor in the standard TCP/IP handshake in which if you don't have enough upstream your downstream is limited because ACK packets aren't getting to the endpoint fast enough.

---

That's not really a bandwidth issue, but more of a latency issue.

For 1500 byte download IP packets, the ACK is only 64 bytes.  That's over a 20:1 ratio, meaning you only need 1/20th the bandwidth in the upload direction.  For an 18 Mbps download, that translates to only about 900 kbps in the upload direction.

But if the end-point to end-point latency is high, then the TCP window has to expand in order for the sender to utilize the full bandwidth.  Vista and 7 handle this well, XP only does so with some TCP/IP stack tweaking.

[gopcs]

Is this a valid iNID installation description?

iNID is installed outside at the entry point to the residence. (Are two models available, i3802V and i3812V?)

A single Ethernet CAT6 is routed indoors to the Access Point/Hub i38HG.

From the i38HG, CAT6 is connected to the DVR, STB's and computers. Also, RG-11 cable connects to telephones for VOIP.

If this scenario is acceptable, my home is ready for the iNID. I am 3400' from the VRAD, and pair bonding is my only hope.

Thanks

[trparky]

I believe that the type of wire that is used to install the service in your house all depends upon what the Prem Tech wants to use.  If you ask me Ethernet is the best option since... let's face it, Ethernet is built for data.  The Coax solution is ok if that's all you can use but if at all possible use Ethernet.

Ethernet is far less susceptible to weird issues whereas the Coax solution is very finicky about the quality of the cable, the quality of the connectors, and the quality of the splitters used in the setup.  Ethernet, tried and true technology for data transfer.

I have no scientific proof but I'd have to say that the majority of bad uVerse installs and system issues are caused by bad coax whereas we hardly ever see any issues with Ethernet installations.

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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gopcs wrote:

Is this a valid iNID installation description?

iNID is installed outside at the entry point to the residence. (Are two models available, i3802V and i3812V?)

A single Ethernet CAT6 is routed indoors to the Access Point/Hub i38HG.

From the i38HG, CAT6 is connected to the DVR, STB's and computers. Also, RG-11 cable connects to telephones for VOIP.

If this scenario is acceptable, my home is ready for the iNID. I am 3400' from the VRAD, and pair bonding is my only hope.

---

Yes, I believe that is the correct wiring setup for an iNID.

As far as I know, there is only one model of the iNID available, the i3812V.  I have not heard of an i3802V.

[alpumpdup]

unfortunately you are incorrect about the workers installing the uVERSE.....they are not represented!!

[spd2demun ACE - Master]

Huh?

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alpumpdup wrote:

unfortunately you are incorrect about the workers installing the uVERSE.....they are not represented!!

---

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

[kwilson9]

So I'm fairly new to U-verse.. and have been referring to these boards.. and this is my first post.. so here goes.

on 8/9  I had u-verse installed, about 4200ft from the VRAD

using an iNID i3812V

long story short.. worked for 3 weeks, and now the past 2 weeks have been hell

iNID either loses the link for 5-10 minutes.. or 5-12 hours.   The strange part it as of late, a patter has emerged, the iNID can't stay past 24 hours with out a complete re-boot.. sometimes it boots up fine.. other times it takes hours.  But rest assured, it senses an AT&T U-verse truck enroute to my house and boots up before they arrive.

When it's a long term loss of service, the iNID power light blings GREEN for about 20 times, holds GREEN, hold RED.. repeats.

I've had trucks roll out here about 9 times now.   I think they think I'm crazy (thank god for diagnostics)

thoughts?  I can't find a similar situation on here.. I'm going to have to drop u-verse soon if there isn't a fix.  I hate TimeWarner.. and loathe my TiVo

[trparky]

Contact uversecare@att.com and either Matt or David will be able to help you.

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

You can use the hyperlink in my sig to send and email to David.  Give him all of your info.

[kwilson9]

Got a call from ATT Executive Custom Relations..  (as a result of my unhappy post on their Facebook Page)

any way.. they replaced the iNID a 3rd time... my iNID is no longer rebooting, but it's taking more errors, and one line has a DSL Training error every 14 to 24 hours, which causes a loss in service for about 4 minutes. 

Had another tech come out, and he said that AT&T has halted all future iNID installs for now.

Being as far as I am from the VRAD (4500 to 5000 ft).. i guess I'm lucky.. I just wish the line techs could find a better pair of lines.