Treadmill causing U-verse gateway to loose connection is simple to fix!

[Gernby]

I realize that there have been lots of threads about this, but none of the many that I read had the "real deal" about why it happens or what the most simple fix is.  The three fixes I've read about are to A) change the treadmill's outlet to a different A/C circuit, or B) swap the coax input to the Gateway over the Cat-5e, or C) Install high quality surge protectors on the U-verse gateway and treadmill.  While the first 2 fixes have worked for some, the 3rd is what seems to work for all.  However, the simplest and cheapest fix is to simply put 1 high quality noise filter on the power cord to the TREADMILL (not the U-verse gateway).  I used one of these, which is about $50 on Amazon.com

It is NOT a noise problem on the power line to the gateway, but a noise problem on the DSL line to the gateway that is being induced by close proximity to the noisy power wiring (similar to crosstalk).  I proved this by putting a 150 dB noise filter on the Gateway alone, which did NOT fix the problem, then putting a 75 dB filter on the treadmill alone, which DID fix the problem. 

Message Edited by Gernby on 07-23-2009 07:14 PM

[mkoegle]

what did it for me was my

Monster Cable HTPS 7000 mk2 

[Gernby]

I considered the Monster Cable units, but after reading the boxes, it was clear that Monster Cable is just one of those overblown fluffy marketting companies that don't sell technically superior products.  They seem to just sell products that are VERY well marketted.  The reason why I say that is that NONE of the surge protectors had the actual amount of noise filtering (in dB) specified on the box!  Even the $200+ models just had BS that made it sound good (ie. "super patented ultra power clean stage 1 for optimal digital performance!"). 

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

Read this.

http://utalk.att.com/utalk/board/message?board.id=Uverse_TV_Equipment&message.id=29007&query.id=1572...

[Gernby]

I read the little bit of info in that thread, but I don't see what the silver bullet was.  I don't see how the wireless configuration could fix this unless the 2Wire 802.11 implementation was the worst ever.  It's not like the treadmill is just causing wireless latptops to not reach the internet.  It's causing the WIRED connections to fail!

Message Edited by Gernby on 07-23-2009 08:44 PM

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

Well you can always connect your treadmill to another outlet in a different room.  That is on a different circuit.  That solution has worked for lots of people as well.  Or if you have circuit breakers in your home you could have another one added and plug the treadmill or stbinto that one.

[Gernby]

I see that you have LOTS of posts on this forum, but I don't think you are understanding the underlying issue here.  It has nothing to do with circuit breakers or A/C outlets at all. 

BTW, I realize that everyone and everything posted on the internet is questionable at best.  FWIW, I have a 4 year BS in Telecommunications Engineering Technology from Texas A&M University in '95, and worked as an Installation Design Engineer for DSC and Alcatel for 9 years before abandoning the industry a couple years ago when I moved on to software development for PepsiCo.

[hpmsrm]

Gernby.......I'm happy to hear that you solved the problem in your situation.   Several times I've urged the use of noise filters on all lines.....power and signal alike.....as there are many sources of different kinds of noise these days, from exercise machines to solid state ceiling fan speed controls.

I urge you to become a regular contributor to this forum.  With your background you undoubtedly could offer helpful suggestions to others who are plagued with puzzling problems.

Message Edited by hpmsrm on 07-23-2009 10:03 PM

[Kellap]

I have a major problem with my U-Verse, one tech mentioned this treadmill problem (I don't have a treadmill by the way) but he said something could be interfering with my service.  I have had 9 techs and line-guys out to my house, they have changed the gateway, connectors in the attic, put in a new line (CAT something), tweeked here and there.......I am at a loss!  They are trying to get me a "noise filter" but after reading this I am not sure where they would put it for it to filter anything.  We cannot find a source!  It works every morning and then mid-afternoon until evening it just resets itself and will occassionally come on for 30 seconds.  I really want this to work but I am losing faith.  The tech guy came out last night and removed something that looked like a silver bullet.  It didn't improve anything.  Is a matter of fact it was up for about 30 minutes and then after he removed that piece and left it was down for 4 hours!  Does anyone have any advice?  HELP

[Towen7]

Chances are that the "noise filter" the techs are trying to get their hands on is one thatis placed in-line with the incoming VDSL signal to the gateway. I have heard of several examples of this helping in situations such as yours. These filters are hard to come by, more are being manufactured.

[randyl]

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Kellap wrote:

I have a major problem with my U-Verse, one tech mentioned this treadmill problem (I don't have a treadmill by the way) but he said something could be interfering with my service.  I have had 9 techs and line-guys out to my house, they have changed the gateway, connectors in the attic, put in a new line (CAT something), tweeked here and there.......I am at a loss!  They are trying to get me a "noise filter" but after reading this I am not sure where they would put it for it to filter anything.  We cannot find a source!  It works every morning and then mid-afternoon until evening it just resets itself and will occassionally come on for 30 seconds.  I really want this to work but I am losing faith.  The tech guy came out last night and removed something that looked like a silver bullet.  It didn't improve anything.  Is a matter of fact it was up for about 30 minutes and then after he removed that piece and left it was down for 4 hours!  Does anyone have any advice?  HELP

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                david

[mkoegle]

im glad the change in the  filter fixed your issue!

thanks for giving us the information!

[mibrnsurg ACE - Geek]

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Kellap wrote:

I have a major problem with my U-Verse, one tech mentioned this treadmill problem (I don't have a treadmill by the way) but he said something could be interfering with my service.  I have had 9 techs and line-guys out to my house, they have changed the gateway, connectors in the attic, put in a new line (CAT something), tweeked here and there.......I am at a loss!  They are trying to get me a "noise filter" but after reading this I am not sure where they would put it for it to filter anything.  We cannot find a source!  It works every morning and then mid-afternoon until evening it just resets itself and will occassionally come on for 30 seconds.  I really want this to work but I am losing faith.  The tech guy came out last night and removed something that looked like a silver bullet.  It didn't improve anything.  Is a matter of fact it was up for about 30 minutes and then after he removed that piece and left it was down for 4 hours!  Does anyone have any advice?  HELP

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You could try this to see if there is RF interference causing problems:

1. Connect to your 2Wire 3800HG MDC (Management and diagnostic console) and click on the 'DSL Diagnostics' option under the troubleshooting menu Use this link: http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J42&THISPAGE=J01&NEXTPAGE=J42
(you will need the RG password on the white sticker on the RG)
2. Copy the source code of the 2Wire 3800HG diagnostics page to the clipboard or file:
(Option 1) Recommended: In Firefox select 'View page source' or in Internet Explorer select 'Source' from the 'View' menu and then select all and copy the entire contents of the page to the clipboard.
(Option 2) In Firefox select 'Save page as' or in Internet Explorer select 'Save as' from the 'File' menu. Open the previously saved file with a text editor like notepad and select all and copy the contents of this file to the clipboard.
3. Paste the contents of the clipboard into the white box on dohrenburg's website.
http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/tools/3800hg-stats.php
4. Click on the 'Process Form' button.
5. With little luck you'll see your modem's DMT chart, the training history, and some basic analysis

In step 2 a pop up should come up w/source code, that is the one you copy to the clipboard (use option 1). Once the source code is analyzed, on the results page below the graph, you'll see red lines listing interference on certain bit load frequencies. Press the 'contact us' link on the very bottom of the page and explain the problem that you are having. They will get back to you by email coming from Robot and you might be able to give TS some info about your problems. In my case here in metro Detroit, I get interference on .759 mhz (760 AM WJR) and .797813/.802125 mhz (800 AM CKLW), but they don't cause any problems.

Good luck

Chris

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Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

[Kellap]

I don't have the filter yet, so nothing has been fixed.  I am taking advantage of the morning because it is the only time of the day that I have service.  I hope I hear from them today.  Does anyone know if I can buy one myself?

[flkastl]

I realize this POST is a little later than the problem Post but I had the same issue and fixed it.  I added a Belkin surge protector which also incorporates a 58 DB EFI filer -to my treadmill. Prior, my entire system would go down when the treadmill started. Being a retired building inspector I can assume the EFI was carried down either the common ground or negative wiring (or both) to cause the problem. My Uverse system consists of 3 boxes, DVR, three computers (one is wireless) and phone system. These are at various locations throughout the 2-story house and had all been affected by the treadmill. I purchased the Belkin at Fry's for $19.95.

My other thought was that the same EFI input could be coming from any appliance without a surge protector and EFI filter combo. Not all surge protectors or "power strips" have the EFI filter. It is cheap insurance to have one installed on all of them in case of a power surge and to improve the Uverse system.

[lllllll_1]

That is not true. the treadmill is pulling down a circuit. the dip in the circuit is followed by a surge, which the guy with the protector is stopping from hitting the rg... But understand that depending on the house wiring, and whats on that circuit already, the dip will cause the rg to drop if its great enough.

The reality is, the rg should not be on the circuit of a tread mill. or the treadmill needs to be in an area that has its own circuit. I've run power for a office building that had health equipment. Two on a single 20 amp..and a large one had its own circuit.

Many people stick them in a bedroom, that has a 15 amp breaker and Uverse in the rooms, lights, tvs, and a computer!

Or better yet, while doing the health thing, they have a stereo playing, And a window unit air conditioner! Or fan

[erock9174]

Trying to troubleshoot my treadmill problem.

All my uverse boxes in the house (3) freeze whenever I turn on my treadmill.

So far I have put the treadmill on it's own circuit and it did not help.  I put the Uverse box on it's own circuit and it did not help.  I put my Plasma TV on it's own circuit and I get static on the screen when I turn on the treadmill but it usually goes away and I can watch TV while the treadmill is on.   But if I try and turn on another tv within the house it's frozen. 

I was thinking about trying the power cord / noise suppressor on the Treadmill as mentioned above.  We have these at work -- Tripp Lite Super 8, Model - SK6-6 with EMI/RFI noise suppression of > 60.  Do you think that would be adequate ?

Also somebody mentioned a Belkin unit above.  Would you happen to have a part number ?

[ScottMac]

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lllllll_1 wrote:

That is not true. the treadmill is pulling down a circuit. the dip in the circuit is followed by a surge, which the guy with the protector is stopping from hitting the rg... But understand that depending on the house wiring, and whats on that circuit already, the dip will cause the rg to drop if its great enough.

The reality is, the rg should not be on the circuit of a tread mill. or the treadmill needs to be in an area that has its own circuit. I've run power for a office building that had health equipment. Two on a single 20 amp..and a large one had its own circuit.

Many people stick them in a bedroom, that has a 15 amp breaker and Uverse in the rooms, lights, tvs, and a computer!

Or better yet, while doing the health thing, they have a stereo playing, And a window unit air conditioner! Or fan

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It's more than just a power dip / surge; the speed control circuit can cause a great deal of interference, both directly on the line and radiated.

For DC motors, many speed controls use "pulse width modulation,"  which delivers the fractional amount of power to the motor by changing the width of the "ON" time of a pules train (more "on time" more speed / more power delivered to the motor).

For AC motors, TRIACs with logic-controlled triggers change the power delivered to the motor by firing more or less often (fires more = more power / faster speed).

In either case, if the manufacturer of the equipment doesn't use proper filtering and shielding, it puts a crapload of noise on the line and (often) in the air (as static, you can hear it on an AM radio).

A line filter with at least -60dBm of EMI/RFI suppression is usually nedded, and for some equipment - 70-80dBm is necessary. Usually it can be put on the transmitter (treadmill), sometimes it needs to go on the equipment (usually the RG), sometimes both.

It's situational with the house, the wiring, the cabling, etc

[BeeBeeSA ACE - Wizard]

Had a contractor using an electric drill at my house awhile back and everytime he pulled the trigger the RG would wig out and I would loose TV so they are sensitive.

[ram1220]

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BeeBeeSA wrote:

Had a contractor using an electric drill at my house awhile back and everytime he pulled the trigger the RG would wig out and I would loose TV so they are sensitive.

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 So tighten the TV then.

[erock9174]

Did some trouble shooting last night and seemed to resolve the treadmill issue.

As mentioned above at first I tried putting my A/V equipment on a different circuit than the treadmill and this did not work.  Both were hooked up to cheap power strips without noise filtering.

So last night I then tried:

First -- AV Equipment (Receiver, TV and Cable Box) and Treadmill on same power circuit with Treadmill hooked up to a Tripp Lite Super 8 (SK6-6) with > 60 EMI/RFI filtering.   Cable froze when the treadmill turned on.

Second I put the all the AV equipment on the Trip Lite Super 8 with the Treadmill on the cheap power strip.  All on the same power circuit.  Still froze. 

Third I put the AV Equipment on one Tripp Lite Super 8 and the Treadmill on another Super 8 (All on same power circuit) - Still froze.

Also my TV upstairs would freeze in these combinations as well.

Finally - Put the treadmill on its own circuit with a Tripp Lite Super 8, then put the AV Equipment on a different circuit with a Super 8 and this worked.   My TV upstairs did not freeze either.  It's not on a Tripp Lite.  Just a cheap power strip.

Hope this helps.  By the way the Tripp Lite's run $28.97 on Amazon.com

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

Cool, glad you got it working. 

You can also look at the Tripp-Lite IsoBar units.  These not only filter between the devices and the circuit it's plugged into, but also filter between devices plugged into the unit.  It has higher EFI/RFI filtering as well (up to 80 dB).

These are premium units, however, and cost about twice as much as the Super 8.

[erock9174]

We have some of those Isobar units at the office.  Thought about trying one of those on the treadmill to see if that would fix it. 

[erock9174]

SomeJoe

Do you know what the difference is between the Tripp Lite Isobar and Isobar Ultra series are.

The Ultra's are about $5 more at each pricepoint.

[erock9174]

figured it out.  The ultra units have led's on the front of it showing the line is protected.

[erock9174]

Ended up buying the Tripp Lite TR-6 surger protector that has 80 dB noise filtering.  Actually bought 4 of them on ebay.  (all 4 new for $52 shipped).  Normally one of them new is about $50.   So it was a steal.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=824&txtModelID=124

Anyway I plan to put my upstairs A/V equipment, Downstairs AV equipment, Treadmill and Uverse modem & Phone base all on their own surge protector.  Figure that should eliminate any noise issues in the line.

[RCSMG ACE - Master]

Cool.