Motorola NVG510 FAIL

[sippinjoes]

Anyone set up this device successfully?.  I had a tech come out after many failed attempts to keep a connection and he ended up setting up my internet service with a 2WIRE (no wireless N), don't even think it is gigabit.

The tech said he typically has problems setting up NVG510s.  Does anyone know why ATT hasn't pulled them back yet and is still selling faulty equipment?  Or is everyone else getting the NVG 510 having good fortune.

[jbdet313]

Count yourself in the growing pool of customers having problems with this device. More threads are around these Uverse forum categories, the most recent one here.

[jimgfitzgerald]

You might want to put your own N router behind the 2WIRE.

[sippinjoes]

That is what I will be working on (router behind router).  I've seen a lot of step by steps, but most involve using the second router in bridge mode (don't want to do that).  I had everything working great with my cable modem.  Not sure why ATT has to be so difficult with their equipment.

If anyone can point me to a good step by step (can't seem to find the right one).  I would appreciate it.  Ideally I want to be able to see my itunes library hardwired to the 2WIRE 2701HGV-B when my Apple TV is connected to my Airport Extreme.  If not possible, I will have to move my 2WIRE and run another phone line.

Attempted diagram of network wires:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-rja3jDlGo2ZWNkMDc5MjItMTIzYy00MjUzLTgyOGYtYzYxMjJlNTA1MGEw

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

This is what I did (when I had Uverse) to use an "internal" router. I set my "internal" router to use DHCPor Dynamic for the WAN address, plugged it's WAN port in to the 2WIRE's lan port, reboot the "internal" router, let the 2WIRE assign a local address to the "internal" router and then set that address to the DMZ in the 2WIRE's management interface. When I go to the "internal" router's management interface it shows as having the same WAN, gateway, and DNS addresses that the RG uses.


I set the "internal" router to assign addresses to "my" side of the network in a different IP range than what the 2WIRE uses (192.168.2.* instead of 192.168.1.*) but using the same subnet mask (255.255.255.0). My internet works fine with no interuptions and local network tasks (back ups, streaming, etc.) work as expected. I can also still access the 2WIRE from "my" side of the network when I need to without having to change any network settings or swap any cables. Leave DHCP running on the 2WIRE. You do not need to disable the firewall in the 2WIRE as the DMZ mode will open a pinhole through it to the address you pick (your internal router). If you have existing wireless on your router that your satisfied with and want to keep, just make sure to turn off the wireless in the 2WIRE.


If you currently have your router behind a basic DSL or Cable modem, Your setup will be pretty much the same. The 2WIRE will replace your modem, then go into your existing router and change it's internet connection type to Dynamic or DHCP. Then change it's internal network IP adress and DHCP Pool and you should be good to go.

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
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I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
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“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[krog]

With a Netopia 2247 modem/router I could set up a "pinhole."  I first changed the default external IP address from 80 to 8080 then assigned my application (a library catalog lookup system) the port address 80.  Next I associated the application name with the IP address of the internal (LAN) catalog server.  This worked!  Anyone at home could check the catalog and see books available. 

Can this be done with the NVG510?  I've tried NAT/Gaming variations that seem to be the equivalent to a pinhole with no success.  IP passthrough and packet filter options might be the way to go but I can't see how to set them up.

HELP!

[krog]

Got it working!  So the NVG510 does allow for a pinhole!  My problem seems to have been failure to do a full reset after making the changes.  I guess that should have been obviously necessary (for a pro) but I'm anything but a pro in this stuff and would have appreciated a statement on the help pages: "It is necessary to do a reset after making software changes."

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

Most modem/routers interfaces have "SAVE" buttons and/or will indicate when a reboot is required for changes to take effect, either with some kind of pop-up, a new page with a "REBOOT" button, or in the instructions for that section of the interface. If you dig around in there I'm sure you'll find it.

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[krog]

I did do some digging like you suggested.  On any of the pages where the changes were being made there were no such indicators of the necessity to do a full reset to effect the change.  The only place where the necessity was indicated was in the actual reset.  There was a statement that (paraphrasing): "software changes would be copied to working memory."

That is a hint that the reset is necessary but nothing like the little yellow triangles in the Netopias emphasizing that the changes wouldn't be effective without a full reset.  Actually the design on the Netopia was kind of a pain because in a multi-step process, you had to do a full reset at each step.  With the NVG510 you make all the necessary changes and then do a full reset.  So more efficient...but no clear warning of necessity.  (I do know Motorola owns Netopia but that doesn't mean the developers ever talk.  And considering all the grousing about the 510 and the 2210, some management should butt heads together.)

[gulk]

Hi Computer-Joe,

you mentioned " I can also still access the 2WIRE from "my" side of the network when I need to without having to change any network settings or swap any cables".

How do you do that?

Your quick guidelines to setup the nvg510 (very limited router, not even DHCP lease based on mac...) just as a passthrough were extremely helpful.

Thanks mate!

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

Put the 2Wire's IP address in the address bar of your browser (http://192.168.1.254) for example.

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[gulk]

That was certainly obvious...

The reason I didn't hink about it was because in your configuration the nvg510 is really a passthrough. Therefore if you're locally requesting 192.168.1.254, that should go to the internet, not to your nvg510.

I am wondering how that works really, and how my lan security could be affected by this.

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

---

gulk wrote:

That was certainly obvious...

The reason I didn't hink about it was because in your configuration the nvg510 is really a passthrough. Therefore if you're locally requesting 192.168.1.254, that should go to the internet, not to your nvg510.

I am wondering how that works really, and how my lan security could be affected by this.

---

The 192.168.0.0 thru 192.168.255.255 subnet is what is know as non-routable or private IP addresses. An internet gateway will not pass any requests to those addresses out to the internet. Modems and gateways/routers always have two addresses, one routable or public (WAN address) and one non-routable or private (LAN address). Their operating mode (Pasthrough, Pinholes, or DMZ) does not change this. A gateway/router can have as it's WAN address a non-routable IP if you were using that gateway/router as an access point or network extender.

Other non-routable IPs include:

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[gulk]

Thanks for the explanation!

It's great to know that coming from standard DSL, I won't have to touch my network settings beside the way the "inside" router gets its WAN.

Now if only I could get the nvg510 to sync at more than 6Mb...

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

---

Computer-Joe wrote:

The 192.168.0.0 thru 192.168.255.255 subnet is what is know as non-routable or private IP addresses. An internet gateway will not pass any requests to those addresses out to the internet. Modems and gateways/routers always have two addresses, one routable or public (WAN address) and one non-routable or private (LAN address). Their operating mode (Pasthrough, Pinholes, or DMZ) does not change this. A gateway/router can have as it's WAN address a non-routable IP if you were using that gateway/router as an access point or network extender.

Other non-routable IPs include:

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255

---

Be careful with this generalization.  In residential Internet service, this is usually true, but not always.  Also, in many business Internet installations, it does not apply.

Because of the shortage of IPv4 addresses, most residential Internet installations indeed are given only 1 publically routable IP address for the WAN side of the router, and the LAN side uses private address space.  Packets are routed from LAN to WAN using Network Address Translation (NAT).

However, the Internet was not designed to do this.  It was designed to have publically routable IP addresses on both sides of the router, and NAT is not used.  This is the way it works with many Internet services (not U-Verse) if you purchase static IP addresses from your ISP, and this is the way it works in many business installations.

This is important to keep in mind, because IPv6 is just around the corner.  IPv6 does not use NAT, ever.  People need to get used to the idea that the IP addresses on the LAN side of the router will be publically routable, not private.

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

---

SomeJoe7777 wrote:

---

Computer-Joe wrote:

The 192.168.0.0 thru 192.168.255.255 subnet is what is know as non-routable or private IP addresses. An internet gateway will not pass any requests to those addresses out to the internet. Modems and gateways/routers always have two addresses, one routable or public (WAN address) and one non-routable or private (LAN address). Their operating mode (Pasthrough, Pinholes, or DMZ) does not change this. A gateway/router can have as it's WAN address a non-routable IP if you were using that gateway/router as an access point or network extender.

Other non-routable IPs include:

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255

---

Be careful with this generalization.  In residential Internet service, this is usually true, but not always.  Also, in many business Internet installations, it does not apply.

Because of the shortage of IPv4 addresses, most residential Internet installations indeed are given only 1 publically routable IP address for the WAN side of the router, and the LAN side uses private address space.  Packets are routed from LAN to WAN using Network Address Translation (NAT).

However, the Internet was not designed to do this.  It was designed to have publically routable IP addresses on both sides of the router, and NAT is not used.  This is the way it works with many Internet services (not U-Verse) if you purchase static IP addresses from your ISP, and this is the way it works in many business installations.

This is important to keep in mind, because IPv6 is just around the corner.  IPv6 does not use NAT, ever.  People need to get used to the idea that the IP addresses on the LAN side of the router will be publically routable, not private.

---

Yes you can assign public addresses to devices (server) on your private LAN but that device would no longer be considered private although access can be restricted.

Just like IPv4, IPv6 does in fact have have a reserved block of private non-routable addresses called "Unique Local Addresses"

NAT may not be required for IPv6 but it won't be going away anytime soon. NAT-PT is required for v4/v6 address translation.

As well, with private and public addressing in IPv6, I believe some type of NAT will be required if private addressing is implemented on your LAN. It will probably be much more streamlined though as the translation would be one to one (WAN to LAN) instead of one to many which is required now to share your one public IP with all your computers.

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

Of course, with IPv4 public addresses on the LAN side, you need a firewall to prevent the server from being completely exposed to the Internet. Firewalls can be implemented at the router or on a separate device.

Yes, IPv6 has Unique Local addressing, but those addresses are intended to be used for housekeeping functions on the local LAN, not for communication with other networks.

NAT-PT is deprecated and will not be used. After a lot of research, it was found that NAT-PT does not do even a mediocre job of protocol translation between IPv4 and IPv6, and will not be used as a transition mechanism.

All IPv6 installations will have publically routable IP addresses with no NAT required. That is the nature of how IPv6 works. All IPv6 hosts are multihomed, so any IPv6 workstation has multiple IPs on it regardless. It will usually have at least one Unique Local, one publically routable obtained from the local router, and possibly more for other purposes like multicast or static assignment. Each address is used for it's intended purpose -- the Unique Local is used for communication with the local router or housekeeping functions like Neighbor Discovery (IPv6's version of ARP), while the publically routable ones are used for communication with other networks. No address translation is ever required for IPv6, nor is it desired.

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

---

SomeJoe7777 wrote:
Of course, with IPv4 public addresses on the LAN side, you need a firewall to prevent the server from being completely exposed to the Internet. Firewalls can be implemented at the router or on a separate device.

Yes, IPv6 has Unique Local addressing, but those addresses are intended to be used for housekeeping functions on the local LAN, not for communication with other networks.

NAT-PT is deprecated and will not be used. After a lot of research, it was found that NAT-PT does not do even a mediocre job of protocol translation between IPv4 and IPv6, and will not be used as a transition mechanism.

All IPv6 installations will have publically routable IP addresses with no NAT required. That is the nature of how IPv6 works. All IPv6 hosts are multihomed, so any IPv6 workstation has multiple IPs on it regardless. It will usually have at least one Unique Local, one publically routable obtained from the local router, and possibly more for other purposes like multicast or static assignment. Each address is used for it's intended purpose -- the Unique Local is used for communication with the local router or housekeeping functions like Neighbor Discovery (IPv6's version of ARP), while the publically routable ones are used for communication with other networks. No address translation is ever required for IPv6, nor is it desired.

---

Where are the public addresses served from?  How does it handle the dynamic nature of comsumer networked devices that leave and join your networks (and sometimes other networks)? Is AT&T going to assign a block of 50 static public addresses to each of their subscribers for Lan based DHCP use? Is the public address, that each device is assigned, permannent and/or portable?

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

Sorry, there I go dragging everyone off topic again.

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

---

Computer-Joe wrote:

Where are the public addresses served from?  How does it handle the dynamic nature of comsumer networked devices that leave and join your networks (and sometimes other networks)? Is AT&T going to assign a block of 50 static public addresses to each of their subscribers for Lan based DHCP use? Is the public address, that each device is assigned, permannent and/or portable?

---

The addresses are assigned by the ISP to the end customer, and can be either manually programmed into the router, or there are mechanisms to allow the router to self-configure.

"Publically routable" does not necessarily equate with "static".  Clients on the LAN may indeed end up with a different IPv6 address every time they join the network, but the address is still publically routable and requires no NAT.

In IPv4, there are 32 bits of the IP address to be used.  For a corporate installation, that corporation might tell the ISP -- "I need a block of 256 addresses".  The ISP assigns that customer a network address with 24 bits, and the customer can use the final 8 bits for the hosts, in any manner he sees fit.  For example, the ISP gives the corporation 150.150.150.0/24.  Now the client can use addresses 150.150.150.1 through 150.150.150.254.  The client might use part of that block as statically-assigned (for instance, for their servers), and the remainder of the block as DHCP for their client workstations.  All of these IPs are routable on the public internet with no NAT, but the client workstations might indeed get a different IP address each time they're powered on from the DHCP server.

Other corporate installations might need larger or smaller blocks of addresses.  We're all familiar with the /29 block size (8 addresses, 5 usable), as well as all of the other available sizes.  IPv4 is flexible in that the number of bits allocated to the network portion of the address and the number of bits allocated to the host portion can be altered as necessary.

In IPv6, the number of bits allocated to the network portion and the number of bits allocated to the host portion is fixed for all addresses.  The IPv6 address is 128 bits, with 64 bits for the network and 64 bits for the host.  ISPs assign the end user a single /64 network prefix (a /64 is the smallest allocatable IPv6 prefix), enabling the end user to have 2^64 hosts on their network, all are routable public IPv6 addresses.

For example, I have IPv6 up and running here at my house (via a tunnel to Hurricane Electric, an ISP that gives out free IPv6 tunnels).  Hurricane Electric assigned me the IPv6 network 2001:470:1F0F:8C9::/64.  This means I have the following address block available for my hosts:

2001:470:1F0F:8C9:0:0:0:0 through 2001:470:1F0F:8C9:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF:FFFF

This number of hosts is 4 billion times the size of the entire IPv4 address space.  

The UV Realtime web site is up and running on IPv6 here at my house, on publically routable and statically-assigned IPv6 address 2001:470:1F0F:8C9::14.

I also have IPv6 dynamic address assignment running on the LAN using my IPv6 router and Microsoft Windows Server 2008R2, running DHCPv6.  This hands out dynamic IPv6 addresses to client workstations, which are also publically routable.  This workstation I'm on has the following IP addresses on it's Ethernet interface:

192.168.160.50 (IPv4, statically assigned, private)

FE80::68CE:1CFC:8CA2:8BB1 (IPv6, Unique Local)

2001:470:1F0F:8C9:68CE:1CFC:8CA2:8BB1 (IPv6, automatically assigned from router via SLAAC, publically routable)

2001:470:1F0F:8C9:6EC5:4D94:BD62:37BD (IPv6, dynamic from DHCP server, publically routable)

This workstation can browse IPv6 web sites natively through my tunnel with no IPv4 in the mix at all.  I can go to http://ipv6.google.com with routable IPv6 addressing end-to-end.

When AT&T gets IPv6 up and running for its residential customers (they're behind, Comcast is already doing this), they will assign you a /64 IPv6 network, and you'll have the same functionality available -- 2^64 publically routable IPv6 addresses to do whatever you want with.

[data95]

I have been trying to get this thing to work since Oct 8th... It's November 4th... Tech after Tech... nothing.  I hate AT&T.

[Computer-Joe ACE - Guru]

---

data95 wrote:

I have been trying to get this thing to work since Oct 8th... It's November 4th... Tech after Tech... nothing.  I hate AT&T.

---

If you would actually like some help with your problem, we will need some more info. Describe your hardware setup and what it is you are trying to accomplish and the folks here will gladly try to assist you.

__________________________________________________________
How can you be in two places at once, when your not anywhere at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really want to become a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are three kinds of people, those that can count, and those that can't.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Our great democracies still tend to think that a stupid man is more likely to be honest than a clever man, and our politicians take advantage of this prejudice by pretending to be even more stupid than nature has made them." :Bertrand Russell

[gulk]

Hi SomeJoe7777,

understanding the upcoming ipv6 from a pre-digested source is very useful and save valuable time. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten the community!

Having said that, it seems to me that IPV6 will expose my local devices (PC, laptops, network hard-drives, etc...) to the outside world via publically routable IPs. Is there any specific provision built in IPV6 firewalls?

I am sure there are, just curious about the approach.

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

Currently, the 2Wire residential gateways that are provided to U-Verse customers do not have any IPv6 capability. However, when they do get that capability via a firmware update, they will most likely have a stateful firewall that will protect the IPv6 addresses from inbound connections by default. Should you want to open a pinhole in this firewall to run a service on an IPv6-enabled server, that process will be nearly identical to opening a pinhole for an IPv4 host.

[HachiRoku]

I've been having problems with the NVG 510 for about 2 months also.

First, I got the 8 red LED problem (and proceeded to get sent modem after modem with this problem) which there appears to be no fix, because teir 2 tech and outside tech had nfi what was going on.  Luckily, 1 out of the 4 gateways sent to me kind of worked.

The one that did work had wireless issues though.  No wireless device could maintain a download speed more than 1 megabyte per second reliabily.  Again, the tech supports had no idea what was going on, and it wasn't a problem with the line OR a problem with the device (tested on 3 computers and the outside tech's iphone.)  Anyway this issue was KIND OF fixed by reducing the power level from the device.

NOW I'm getting ridiculous DNS problems, and since you can't change the DNS settings in the gateway itself, and because I don't have a better router to route it through in bridge mode, and because setting it up in bridge mode is incredibly cumbersome because the bridge mode feature was turned off, this isn't a very good option.  And because I can't change the DNS settings on my work laptop which I use often at home, using a dns on a personal computer basis is less than ideal, not to mention having to change the DNS settings on EVERY one of my 4 computers is beyond ridiculous.

So seriously, how can anyone consider this NVG510 anything other than what it is: Garbage?  It's complete trash that has more problems than any peice of hardware I've ever had the displeasure of owning.  And ATT has the nerve to charge me $100 and MAKE me buy it, and then play keep away with the manual.

I'm very close to cutting my losses on the gateway and going with comcast.

[jimmbu]

Trying to set up ATT / Uverse wireless modem/router (NVG510)... no conectivity. Diag test comes back thumbs up except last test - ipv6 fails.

What do I need to do? Cannot get online as is.

many thanks!

[dadaraga]

I have tried for two months to get ATT's Motorola NVG510 to work with DISH Remote Access.  If they don't get it fixed today I am switching to another ISP or to another satellite company or both. I don't know which will be the worst nightmare. Tired of ATT and DISH equipment.  DISH says I need a router with UPnP.  ATT says this router doesn't have that and none of their routers do.  I'd like to leave them both behind but don't have a lot of options in my area.  If anyone knows how to get to the DMZ mode on the Motorola NVG510 or how to make DISH Remote ACCESS/TVAnywhere/DISH ONLINE work with this router I would appreciate knowing.

[matrix2004_1]

What feature are you trying to access? I just got mine installed and it works. I didn't change any settings, it set itself up.