Second Hard Drive

Uturnaroun · ‎07-29-2007

I want to place a second hard drive in my computer sometime in the future, but I've never done this before and I have some questions about my situation.

First, my computer case only has one internal 3.5" bay; and it's occupied by my current hard drive. There is an open external 3.5" bay. Based on the type of faceplate, I would assume that is where a floppy drive would go. Would it be safe for me to place a hard drive in there if I keep the faceplate on? Or are the external bays strictly for things like floppy and disc drives?

Second, there is no ledge/shelf under that free bay. My media card reader is below that bay, and it doesn't occupy much space in the case, so the drive won't be resting on anything. If the hard drive can go in that bay, would screws alone be able to support the drive? Is it safe to mount it without something below it?

Third, when I'm mounting the drive, do the screws only go in on one side? If not, how do I get to the other side of the case to screw in the other side? My case only opens from one side.

This would be the first time that I would be doing something with the bays, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

hpmsrm · ‎09-14-2009

Heck, UT, it should be simple....if a nitwit like me can do it. It does not really matter where the second hard drive goes. If it will fit there is no reason why it can't go in that empty slot. Some years ago I even velcroed one to the side of the computer case....plugged in the power and signal connectors.....set the dip switch to slave and it worked just great for years. As to how to screw it in place....well without pulling out my cpu and opening it up I can't visualize why there might be a problem. Maybe someone else can help here.

One question.....why go with an internal drive? I recently picked up a 1 tb external drive for $100....plugged it into a USB port and set it on the shelf next to the CPU. Works great.

Message Edited by hpmsrm on 08-15-2009 04:07 PM

Message Edited by hpmsrm on 08-15-2009 04:09 PM

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Uturnaroun · ‎07-29-2007

Thanks! The main reason why I'm going with internal is because I'm going to use the new one as my main hard drive. I'm going to use the old one for backups. If anything happens, I could get a case for the old one and use it externally since I won't really be booting from it or anything, but to keep things neat I'd rather have them both internal.

That fact that you velcroed one makes me feel less scared about this.

Hopefully someone can clarify the whole screwing thing though. If necessary, I can take a picture of that part of the case so I can illustrate what I'm saying.

SomeJoe7777 · ‎01-30-2008

For mounting the HD in the case, you will have one of 3 different scenarios:

1. The frame that the HD mounts in is a rigid frame that's part of the case itself and does not move. For this type, you will have to have access to the other side of it so that you can get the other two screws in. For most cases, there is a way to pop off the cover on the other side so that the screws can be accessed.

2. The frame that the HD mounts in is a module that can be removed. There is usually a lever or spring-loaded clip that you push that unlocks and allows you to sllide out the module. Once the module is out, mount the HD in it and then put it back in.

3. The case comes with rails. You mount the rails to the side of the HD, and then the HD with the rails on it slides into the case from the front (you remove the front case bezel) and the rails lock in place.

From your description, it sounds like you have a case type #1.

OK, mounting screws: There are two types of screws used to put a computer together:

1. 6-32 machine screws. These have the courser thread of the two. These screws are used for hard drive mounting, securing expansion cards, and most other case/power supply fastening.

2. 4-40 machine screws. These have the finer thread of the two. These are used for mounting floppy drives and CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drives.

Hard drive connections: Consumer hard drives have one of two different ways to connect:

1. Old way: IDE (also called ATA or parallel ATA). Uses a 80-wire, 40-pin flat ribbon cable that has 3 connectors on it, colored black, gray, and blue. Blue goes to the motherboard, black goes to the first hard drive, gray is either unconnected (if only one HD), or gray is hooked to the 2nd HD. With this method, there is a jumper on the HD that has to be set, the way it is set varies with the HD manufacturer. With this type of cable (with the black/blue/gray connectors), the jumper should always be set to the "Cable Select" setting. Do not use an older IDE cable (40-wire, all black connectors) -- those will not work with modern hard drives.

2. New way: SATA. Uses a thin, red cable with black connectors on both ends. Plug on end into the motherboard, the other end into the HD. No jumpers to set. Done.

Hard drive power: Consumer hard drives have one of two different ways to supply the power connection:

1. Old way: 4-pin molex connector. Large, white (sometimes black) plastic 4-pin connector, the 4 wires going to it are colored red, yellow, and 2 blacks. Plugs into the HD on the back right. This is what you usually see on IDE hard drives.

2. New way: 15-pin SATA power connector. Medium-sized, black plastic connector, has 6 wires going to it colored red, yellow, 2 orange, 2 black. Plugs into the HD on the back left, next to the SATA connector.

Warning: Some hard drives have both types of power connectors for convenience. Only hook up ONE of them, do not use both.

Post back if you have any other questions.

TexasEd · ‎11-23-2007

I have installed lots of second hard drives over the years and I am a total computer dufus! As usual, Joe has provided some detailed and easy to follow instructions, although I have never tried Phil's velcro solution! You should get some (minimal) instructions with the drive, and perhaps can also find some info on the manufacturer's web site. For example, Western Digital has some good info -- I've had good luck with their drives, but others are just as good. Only problem I've had in the past was figuring out the jumper settings (to set one as primary, one as slave), but the manufacturer should be able to tell you if it's not in the instructions. If I could do it, anyone can!

Uturnaroun · ‎07-29-2007

Thanks SomeJoe. Unfortunately, I do not have case type 1. Only one side of my case can open. I did a bit of searching and I found the servicing guide for my computer. It's here (pdf): http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00311110.pdf

The way it explains in, for hard drives, only two screws are tightened. For disc drives, no screws are tightened, they only serve as guides. In that guide, it shows a second hard drive bay. My computer doesn't have that second bay so I'm going to place it into the floppy bay. So I'm not sure if it's still safe to only screw one side in, especially since the drive won't be resting ontop of a ledge or other drive.

I though of something else that might work. On the far side of the cage, there aren't any screw holes. It's one long empty strip. That's what the guide screws would slide on if I were to be installing a floppy drive. So I guess I could place in two screws halfway into the drive, then slide it in through the front of the case. Those screws would rest on that guide strip. Then I would tighten the screws on the side facing me. The only thing is I would have to take of the front of the case to get access there.

This leaves me with another question though, which would make or break this whole plan: can a hard drive fit through the height of a floppy bay? If it's too thick, it won't work.

Also, is this plan flawed in any way?

Thanks again for any help. Also if I can find my camera, I'll take some pictures of the cage to show what it is like.

Message Edited by Uturnaroun on 08-16-2009 05:46 PM

SomeJoe7777 · ‎01-30-2008

OK, didn't know you had an HP computer. HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. all use proprietary methods for mounting in the case.

The guide screws they talk about should have shipped with the computer, or should be stowed somewhere inside the case. They actually are specially shaped so that they will screw partway into the unit to be mounted, but will stick out so that they rest on the guides.

Yes, it should work to do what you're talking about. See if you can find the guide screws, install and tighten them in the far side of the hard drive, slide the drive into the bay where the floppy would go, then put the mounting screws into the near side of the drive. Should work OK.

Escapee · ‎09-09-2009

Joe thanks for all the free advice. I really enjoy your in depth tech info. Keep it up.

I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinion.

Uturnaroun · ‎07-29-2007

SomeJoe7777 wrote:

OK, didn't know you had an HP computer. HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. all use proprietary methods for mounting in the case.

The guide screws they talk about should have shipped with the computer, or should be stowed somewhere inside the case. They actually are specially shaped so that they will screw partway into the unit to be mounted, but will stick out so that they rest on the guides.

Yes, it should work to do what you're talking about. See if you can find the guide screws, install and tighten them in the far side of the hard drive, slide the drive into the bay where the floppy would go, then put the mounting screws into the near side of the drive. Should work OK.

Yes, thanks big time for the advice.

Suppose I can't find the guide screws though. Can I buy more separately? Or will normal screws also work as long as I don't tighten it all the way?

Message Edited by Uturnaroun on 08-17-2009 01:48 PM

SomeJoe7777 · ‎01-30-2008

Normal screws might work, but they'd be kinda loose.

A couple other options:

1. There are kits called 5 1/4" to 3 1/2" mounting kits. The kit consists of two brackets that mount on the side of the hard drive. Once the brackets are mounted on the side of the HD, then the entire assembly is the correct size to mount in a 5 1/4" bay like a CD-ROM drive. If you have the proper mounting screws/assemblies for that but not the 3 1/2" bay, this may work.

2. If your goal is to eventually move everything onto the new HD and just use the old one for storage or backup, you might look at just copying the partition from the old drive to the new one, then mounting the new HD in place of the old one instead of trying to mount 2 HDs in the case.

Then you could get an external USB enclosure for the old drive to turn it into an external drive.

randyl · ‎10-25-2007

who needs screws !! lol

hpmsrm · ‎09-14-2009

SomeJoe.....where were you when I was trying to figure out how to install a second HD?

UT.......here ya go bud:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204610660&listingid=34178723

Need help? Call AT&T at: 1-800-288-2020 then follow recorded instructions.
A Veteran – whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve – is someone who, at a one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’, for an amount of “up to and including his/her life.” ...Author Unknown

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

This stuff is better!

hpmsrm wrote:
SomeJoe.....where were you when I was trying to figure out how to install a second HD?

UT.......here ya go bud:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204610660&listingid=34178723

Uturnaroun · ‎07-29-2007

Thanks everyone. Looks like this is the order of my attempts:

Plan A: Mount in floppy bay with only screws.
Plan B: Use a velcro/screw hybrid to mount in floppy bay.

Plan C: Install only one hard drive and get a case for the old one.

That welding stuff looks interesting, but I'd like something removable.

Also somejoe, I don't have a free 5 1/2" bay to get a bracket, but that is a good idea.

Now I just need to come up with $85 for a 1TB HDD. Does anyone want to help?

Message Edited by Uturnaroun on 08-17-2009 08:51 PM

Escapee · ‎09-09-2009

Do you except virtual cash I can come up with plenty of that. One problem no one will take it.

I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinion.

hpmsrm · ‎09-14-2009

Poor UT. Do you feel picked on yet?

Need help? Call AT&T at: 1-800-288-2020 then follow recorded instructions.
A Veteran – whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve – is someone who, at a one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’, for an amount of “up to and including his/her life.” ...Author Unknown

Uturnaroun · ‎07-29-2007

I came up with two other solutions.

1. Get a hard drive case that connect to the computer via SATA. I can put a hard d rive in there and velcro it to the bottom of the case to prevent it from shifting. That way it is inside the computer case, but it doesn't involve bays at all.

2. Wait a bit and buy a 1 terabyte SD card:
http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/toshiba-announces-worlds-largest-sd-card/?em

Uniblurb3 · ‎09-14-2009

UT, guess you would be waiting until Spring by going the SD card route and who knows what the cost will be.

Maybe you've already seen this link from HP on installing HD's. It also has some videos along w/step-by-step instructions/pics. It may be more PC specific when you enter your model # in the slot.

While the above link says it covers installing additional HD's seems like it covers more on just replacing the HD. They have another link here on adding an additional HD but may not fit your application since seems like you said you don't have an open HD bay.

Saw where HP said you may want to upgrade the power supply when installing an additional HD, especially when adding CD/DVD drive/burners. Since you aren't adding these, and only adding 1 HD, probably not necessary. Just a pitch to sell you a bigger power supply.

In doing a google search by entering "installing additional HD in HP PC" saw lots of additional sites/blogs where someone may be doing the exact same thing as you are trying.

Believe your #1 solution would work too.

Good luck. :smileyhappy:

Uturnaroun wrote:
I came up with two other solutions.

1. Get a hard drive case that connect to the computer via SATA. I can put a hard d rive in there and velcro it to the bottom of the case to prevent it from shifting. That way it is inside the computer case, but it doesn't involve bays at all.

2. Wait a bit and buy a 1 terabyte SD card:
http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/toshiba-announces-worlds-largest-sd-card/?em