The Mojave Experiment

[Uturnaroun]

MS is now trying to promote Vista by calling it Windows Mojave and showing it to people who have never used it:

http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/

Message Edited by Uturnaroun on 07-30-2008 02:17 AM

[Koolkid1935]

If this is real, I would almost truly believe it.  I think a lot of people have so many negative thoughts about Vista due in part to what other people say about it, when for all they know it could be user error and not a problem of the OS itself.  As shown in the first video (haven't watched the others yet, but I suspect they will have about the same outcome), everybody asked had negative thoughts about Vista prior to actually using it themselves (obviously derived from what they have heard from others), and when the trial was done, they couldn't believe they were actually using the same product that they rated so low...Again, those could be set up and staged, but I am giving Microsoft a chance here...  Personally I have been using Vista final (was onboard since the 'public' beta/RC trials as well) since last summer and I really, really have gotten to like it.  A lot of the problems people argue about I don't have at all.  There are some problems here and there, but nothing in comparison to what others say about it.  I haven't had Vista actually 'crash' yet on me, I have had my HDDs crash, but that is another story.  I just had a problem the other day where Vista wouldn't boot, it kept rebooting during the OS load process (after the bootstrap, but before the OS finished loading all the way).  Turns out I hadn't re-seated my NIC card properly when I had it apart cleaning it.  Took it out, cleaned the contacts of the PCI card, re-seated it and it booted without a hitch.

[Uturnaroun]

I agree as well. Vista is better than XP IMO. Like for example, back with XP, I've had a couple of occasions where if a program crashes full screen the entire system locks up and the only way to get out is to do a hard reboot. I've only had a program crash on me once in fullscreen with Vista, and Vista automatically closed it without locking up the whole system. XP was a very stable system, but Vista is even more stable IMO. Plus Vista includes more prgrams out of the box like Photo Gallery and DVD Maker that XP didn't even have.

Message Edited by Uturnaroun on 07-30-2008 03:10 AM

[showtime48 ACE - Master]

i have a brand new copy of vista sitting here just waiting to be installed on a brand new hdd. i'll get around to it. besides i only live about 20 miles from the town of mojave...

[spd2demun ACE - Expert]

Well, I did use it briefly, and didn't like how it treated you like a moron with the constant popups and no easy access to the CP.

Biggest issue is that none of our current computers have the umph needed without replacing some piece of hardware, and most of my software wouldn't work without upgrading to a newer version (IF there was even a Vista compatible version).  They greatly understate the amount of RAM needed, IMO.  

They just dropped the ball in not getting drivers out for hardware, IMO (especially printers).  Things may be better for Vista now, but they're already working on dropping it (I've read because it's been such a dud in the biz world for reasons I stated earlier).  Maybe they've learned from this disaster and the next version will be better. 

I still see Vista as a bad copy of Apple's Tiger/Leopard.  They REALLY tried to make it look and act like what Macs have, and it failed big time...again, just my opinion. 

[callmeox ACE - Professor]

Since Vista and Server 2008 share a common code base, I wouldn't expect to see them drop it any time soon.  There are too many economies involved in a shared code base to just discard Vista and start again from scratch for a desktop OS.

As far as the popups treating you like an idiot, there's a simple and secure solution.  Don't give your everyday account admin privileges and the popups go away.  The only time you will get a popup is when a function that you perform requires admin rights and you just need to authenticate with the admin password.  There's really no reason to use an account with admin level privileges as an everyday account for web browsing and regular activities.  Data Security best practices in business tell you to give the user the minimum access needed to perform their jobs.  Overprivileged accounts are security holes.   In a home environment that's not a part of an active directory domain, Vista gives the user that option.  

Vista handles the admin vs regular user account issue so much more smoothly than XP and there's a real separation of duties between the accounts.  It makes perfect sense from an administrative perspective and as a parent of a teenager, it makes securing the PC from internal and external threats much easier.    Where XP totally sucks is when you install software and it requires you to be an administrator to run the application.  So many apps and games that we installed on XP needed to run as an administrator that we had to choose between security and functionality.  Unfortunately for my kid, security won out. 

Vista has made it so you don't have to choose between the two.  As an IT professional and a parent, I'm happy to see that.

[Uturnaroun]

Well the thing that people don't realize about Vista's UAC popups is that you will see a lot when you first use Vista becuase that is the time when you are installing all of your programs and tweaking it the the way you want it. After that, you will rarely see the popups. And if it does get annoying, they can be turned off (although I don't recommend it).

Spd, what do you mean there's no easy access to the control panel (I'm assuming that's what you mean by CP).

[TexasEd]

UT - did you do a clean install, or an upgrade?  I'm about to order 2GB of RAM (for 4 GB total) and Vista Home Premium.  Currently using XP Media Center Edition and I'd rather do an upgrade (cause I'm lazy).  Did you have any compatability probs with software?  I think I'll need to upgrade a few things, but most look ok in the upgrade advisor.

Spd - did you use Vista with PC Cillin?  Upgrade advisor sez there may be minor compatibility problems.

Appreciate your advice!

[Uturnaroun]

I did an upgrade from Windows XP:MCE. I had very minimal compatibility issues. The Vista disc will tell you everything before it proceeds. Or you can download the Vista Upgrade Advisor so you can know what to expect now.

[Koolkid1935]

I did a clean install on mine.  It worked out great though because that was the same time that I upgraded from RAID 0 done from my motherboard's onboard RAID controller to a RAID 5 array from my new controller card.  I had MCE 05 rollup 2 prior to Vista.  I turned off UAC because I didn't quite care for it much, though I do see its value for the everyday world.  I do run my main account with admin priveledges and haven't had any problems running it that way to date, hopefully it stays that way

[TexasEd]

Thanks y'all.  I think I'm gonna take the plunge!

[spd2demun ACE - Expert]

TX Ed--I did PC-cillin and it worked OK, for the couple of weeks we had it (Premium).  But I think I have a newer version than yours?  I think the newest one is Vista compatible?

UT--For the Control Panel, I like for it to expand in a list (from Start button) and didn't see a way to display it like that in Vista...BUT I used it only briefly as it was son's laptop (that went back to HP, sorry hoggy).

ox--I've been reading that the next version of Windows is set to come out a year early BECAUSE of the lackluster success (not as well as they'd hoped) with businesses.  Many never adopted it because of the incompatibility with software/hardware?

[Koolkid1935]

You can do the control panel as a menu, you just have to tell it thats what you want

 

[Uturnaroun]

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spd2demun wrote:

TX Ed--I did PC-cillin and it worked OK, for the couple of weeks we had it (Premium).  But I think I have a newer version than yours?  I think the newest one is Vista compatible?

UT--For the Control Panel, I like for it to expand in a list (from Start button) and didn't see a way to display it like that in Vista...BUT I used it only briefly as it was son's laptop (that went back to HP, sorry hoggy).

ox--I've been reading that the next version of Windows is set to come out a year early BECAUSE of the lackluster success (not as well as they'd hoped) with businesses.  Many never adopted it because of the incompatibility with software/hardware?

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They can't make it come out a year early. It's in development, which usually takes longer than they say it will. Vista got pushed back so many times...

[spd2demun ACE - Expert]

That's good to know...and now that I know I can turn off the popups with ox's suggestion!

If anything, I think I'll wait until XP support is discontinued and maybe try it then (or whatever comes next).  Laptop is a no-go (RAM maxed out at 2GB).  The hand-me-down desktop has issues with hardware, but it probably has enough power to run.

[Uturnaroun]

XP lifecycle support won't end until 2014, so by then Windows 7, or maybe even Windows 8 will be out.

[spd2demun ACE - Expert]

Yeah, and then it'll take 3 years or so to work the bugs out of that version!

Maybe I'll just get that MacBookPro and BootCamp Vista on that...problem solved, except for where the $$ will come from.  

[TexasEd]

Spd - thanks for the reply.  Yeah, I'm gonna upgrade the PC cillin also, and put it on my laptop.  But, like you, I'm gonna leave the lappie on XP (only 1 GB of Ram)

[spd2demun ACE - Expert]

Just don't blame me if it doesn't work (with Vista).  OK?

Edit--I just checked and the new '08 version IS Vista certified, and I have use the Internet Security version.  I tried their AV/Anti-Spyware version and it was a disaster (it fought with it's brother, PC-cillin; but maybe that's fixed now as well).   

Message Edited by spd2demun on 07-30-2008 03:10 PM

[Koolkid1935]

I have been a fan of Avast! Antivirus.  While there are others out there that are known to work well with Vista (AVG to name one), I know for a fact that Avast! works well.  I have it on all of our computers here, including our 3 Vista computers.

[Uturnaroun]

I use Windows Live OneCare for my desktops. It is my favorite paid anti-malware program. But KK got me hooked on Avast! a while back. Now I use it on my laptops. It does a lot more than AVG and I feel safer with Avast! than with AVG.

[TexasEd]

Avast looks interesting - reasonable too!  Hmm.  Guess if I'm gonna upgrade anyway, I need to do some more research!  Thanks for the leads.

[Uturnaroun]

The home version is free: http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

[Optimus Prime]

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Uturnaroun wrote:
The home version is free: http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

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I had it for a while, seemed decent enough, but Norton 360 is where it is at! (at least for me) I like their backup that they built into it.

[Uturnaroun]

Norton 360 is Norton's version of OneCare. Does it still have insanely high RAM usage and slow scans?

[Optimus Prime]

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Uturnaroun wrote:
Norton 360 is Norton's version of OneCare. Does it still have insanely high RAM usage and slow scans?

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OneCare was horrible. I could not stand it.

Ram usage is the lowest I've ever seen in a norton product and the scans are about average for an Anti-Virus program, slow but not to bad.

[Uturnaroun]

Ok, so they've improved it. Were you using OneCare 1.0 or 2.0? Do you think you could compare them for me? Costco has it on sale soon and if it is good I might try it. What makes 360 better than OneCare?

[Optimus Prime]

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Uturnaroun wrote:
Ok, so they've improved it. Were you using OneCare 1.0 or 2.0? Do you think you could compare them for me? Costco has it on sale soon and if it is good I might try it. What makes 360 better than OneCare?

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Its been a while since I used OneCare so I would guess I would have been using a 1.x version.

THere were virus' that OneCare missed, the interface was something I didn't like and it was always prompting me to do this or that. While 360 has a great interface, never asks me to do anything unless I specified that I wanted it to ask me. It automaticly scans my computer, has an index so that when anything changes it will back up the change weekly to my external hard drive (though it comes with some online storage as well).

cNet gave 360 4 stars and OneCare 3 Stars. Users rated 360 low, though that may have been support related issues as I have had zero problems on XP SP3 or Vista SP1 with 360.

OneCare got a 3 star from users as well so someone likes it but not me!

[Uturnaroun]

Ok. I'll do some reaserch into them. Maybe I'll download the trial one day.