Windows Phone Update 8107

[shoe]

I just got a call from Darrel  from   the presidents office again he said Mr. S...  am leaving his name out so the web folks will not delete this post any way He said the President received my email yesterday as did the director of Finance as well as other stock holders He said believe this we are doing a good job people are looking into it and it is possible it will be released.

 Reading between the lines I am hopeful.

 That is the latest for now

[KeyboardGone]

I have been working with two people: One from the President's office and one from the Urgent Care team and I've even connected those two who were instant messaging when I was one the phone with them.  I think we will get a definitive answer, I just hope that they do the right thing here.

Is posting in the forums a waste of time? Does anyone with any clout at AT&T ever get notified about the issues discussed in here, or do we have to appeal to upper management for action?

[danxjano]

Well since ATT will not update the OS it leaves everyone no choice but to force the update. Even though they say it will void the warranty most of us will only have the phone for less then 2 years, I  have forced the update on my phone and  still works fine. I have been with ATT a very long time and I have had no major problems and any problem were fixed to my satisfaction.

But if ATT wants to be in the wireless business and sell smart phones under their plan then they must come up with a way to keep the customers happy and keep all OS up to date.

I have the HTC Titan which is running the 8107 update

[jamileh]

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KeyboardGone wrote:

Is posting in the forums a waste of time? Does anyone with any clout at AT&T ever get notified about the issues discussed in here, or do we have to appeal to upper management for action?

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Definitely not a waste of time! Our forums consistently prove to be a great source of feedback from people like you who want information. 

A huge part of my role is to make sure that the right people see what our community is talking about and I take that very seriously. 

[coffeemike]

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jamileh wrote:

A huge part of my role is to make sure that the right people see what our community is talking about and I take that very seriously. 

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Which we greatly appreciate. I could suggest some names for who the "right people" are, but to avoid going afoul of forum rules, I'll leave it to your expertise. (Aim high. )

Please make sure that this also comes through as a systemic issue. 8107 is an important bug fix update for a major usability issue, but this is *not* resolved by changing position and releasing 8107 widely. Otherwise, we'll have the same ... emotion with the next update, and the next, and the next. If the carrier wants to pass on a release, okay, but we need some information and visibility - with each release - for AT&T's position.

For example, had AT&T said - in January, when the update was released by MS - that it had no plans to release 8107 and instead wait for a future (Tango?) release, that would have been greatly preferred over silence. You might even find through forum feedback that that decision was misguided, given the impact of the disappearing keyboard issue, but we would have had a position to discuss. Instead, we had weeks of silence on the release, and no information as to what - if any - future updates will be available.

Fix the system, not just the problem,

Mike

[jamileh]

This is great feedback and I appreciate it! Thanks

[chrislynch06]

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jamileh wrote:

This is great feedback and I appreciate it! Thanks

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\

Thank you jamileh.  All your customers expect is transparency and information.  I echo the same, I don't want AT&T to just say "we now have plans to release 8107 to our customers", but I want AT&T to also tell us how they will be handling any future updates Microsoft releases for Carriers and their ODM's (Original Device Manufacturers.)  We look forward to your quick updates on this extremely important issue. 

[gahbmwm5]

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jamileh wrote:

This is great feedback and I appreciate it! Thanks

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 Yes indeed, thanks for trying/attempting to 'keep-the-lines-communication-open', it's a positive stepping stone Jamileh...

[lovewp7]

I spoke with the rep from the president's office for my region again just now. Her information was that this update WILL NOT be applied to AT&T devices at this time. There is still no reason why. I asked for an official statement from AT&T on the reasons why in the hopes we can gain some transparency. I am hoping that they will issue something more public than what is in the forums here. Older devices may be eligible for an unlock. You have to ask for it. I know my Titan is not eligible for about 6 more months. Most likely none of the current devices are available for unlock. The older ones may be and it's reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Contact the office of the president for assistance with this. I don't know about other options. That will vary by account. I asked about voiding the contract so we can leave for another carrier. Again, it's on a case-by-case basis. So like others have found out through this avenue, we aren't getting the update. Period. End of story.

[Loghorn]

It is not so important (at least for some people) if 8107 is delivered by AT&T or not, but it is AT&T silence on the matter that is troubling.  Contrary to other carriers, there is no official information on the update policy at all.  It would be ok if AT&T explained that this update is deferred until the next cumulative one named Tango.

[mistato]

Well if we can't do anything to "legally" get the update or without voiding our warrenties, my next question (which AT&T refuses to answer) is WHY? What is the reason for not releasing, not only this one but any updates from Microsoft. I believe like many others it is to force consumers into buying new devices, but I would love to hear AT&T's reason behind this madness.

[JohnsonsPlace]

Just received a call from a gentleman from the Office of the President, in response to my email to the CEO. He had called yesterday asking me to confirm what the issue was. Today's call was liking talking to a typical AT&T mouth piece. He wasn't near as "nice" as he was yesterday and informed me that he had contacted the office the handles the updates and that the update would not be released. When I asked why, he indicated he was not given that information. Of course I'm certain he didn't ask. I told him that this was totally unacceptable and that I don't understand why a major corporation cannot be transparent with their customers. Actually, we all know why.....greed. I'm through with this mess....I don't have time to deal with incompetent organizations.

[KeyboardGone]

The silent announcement of "no update" comes right with the very loud announcement of new phones that WILL have the updated OS as evidenced by the Lumia 900s already in the wild. So the only "approved" AT&T fix, is to pay retail for a new phone, since the Titan and Focus S are only a few months old and are now broken?

[undisputed n00b]

@KeyboardGone   The focus S and Titan 1 are all EOL. Owners of the focus S and Titan 1 are not getting updates either. The only way AT&T can fix this is to give us all a Lumia 900 or Titan 2.

[KeyboardGone]

@undisputed n00b - the Focus S & Titan aren't EOL quite yet.  It is hard to imagine that a few month old device will be EOL so quickly.  I guess the Lumia/Titan2 tandem will be EOL in the fall when Windows 8 rolls in. 

[KeyboardGone]

QUESTION: If we demanded to have our (soon to be) EOL devices unlocked, would the update come through via Microsoft? 

[WPDownUnder]

Already reports of unlocked AND unbranded (international or open-channel device) Titans getting a new firmware update from HTC which is POST 8107 (ie they already have that!)

http://www.wpcentral.com/unlocked-international-htc-titan-receiving-software-update

[chrislynch06]

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KeyboardGone wrote:

QUESTION: If we demanded to have our (soon to be) EOL devices unlocked, would the update come through via Microsoft? 

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IF you have the Titian, yes.  Otherwise, the Focus Flash and Focus S have no WW equivalent for Microsoft to push updates to.  So, you either take the advice of some people to manually update (I'm not advocating it in any way), demand AT&T release the update (and be more transparent about the Windows Phone update process and delivery) or you buy a new device (which would certainly make AT&T happy, and you a sucker.)  I want nothing more than for AT&T to release the 8107 update, and have a status page on the status of OS vendors updates that AT&T are planning on or not planning to release.

Again, this whole fiasco can be avoided if Microsoft and Google (yes, Google has the same issues with updates) would take complete control of OS updates away from carriers.

[JohnsonsPlace]

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.....we need a little humor in this group, and this is the funniest thing I've seen lately. AT&T is testing something call 'AT&T Plus'......a customer loyalty program! Think anyone from this group will be eligible once it's released?

[chrislynch06]

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JohnsonsPlace wrote:

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.....we need a little humor in this group, and this is the funniest thing I've seen lately. AT&T is testing something call 'AT&T Plus'......a customer loyalty program! Think anyone from this group will be eligible once it's released?

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I'm pretty sure they will.  But how's that going to help with the issue we are raising?  We are trying to raise awareness of AT&T's refusal to release 8107.  I want to take it a step farther and demand that AT&T provide schedules to their customers of when they will distribute OS updates, once the OS vendor has released it.  There are plenty of examples of other carriers providing this information to customers.  Telstra is a great example of what AT&T NEEDS to provide to their customers:  http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/mobile-phones/smartphones/?red=/mobile/phones/smartphones.ht...

[WPDownUnder]

Woot! It was my feedback idea to Telstra and then campaign to support it amongst Aussie WP7 users that largely hurried that table to market!

[undisputed n00b]

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JohnsonsPlace wrote:

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.....we need a little humor in this group, and this is the funniest thing I've seen lately. AT&T is testing something call 'AT&T Plus'......a customer loyalty program! Think anyone from this group will be eligible once it's released?

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LOL waived ugrade and activation fees? I have never paid an activation or upgrade fee to AT&T. I just call customer support after I buy a new phone and they waive the charge because I have been a customer for so many years.

[row5is]

It seems that AT&T has made it's position pretty clear and that is that the 8107 update will not be delivered to the current crop of Windows Phone devices. We can only take them at their word. So with that in mind, we can also deduce that these phones will also not get any update after 8107. We can make this assumption because Microsoft has said, and we have seen from prevous updates, that if AT&T were to give us Tango then they would have to give us 8107 since all updates are cumulative. And as we've already determined, the 8107 update will not be delivered to existing handsets.

This leaves us in an interesting position. We have devices that are for all intents and purposes, broken. Yet AT&T will not fix them. So we don't have to worry about breaking a warrenty since AT&T will not honor the implied warrenty of fixing a defective device. As for worrying about not getting any possible future updates, well as we've already determined, AT&T will not be delivering any future updates.

So we have a few options left. If we are not under contract we could walk. If we are under contract we can try to persueade AT&T to let us leave. Or we can fix our broken unsupported devices ourselves. As for those who say we should not have to fix our own devices I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunatly, the people complaining are the minority of a minority so it is doubtful that AT&T will do anything.

I would never presume to tell anyone which of the options they should take. If they were to try to fix their own devices I'm sure it would be fairly easy to find instructions on how to do it by searching for things like 8107, force update, and perhaps WPCentral. It may be tedious but it certainly would not be difficult to do, and I'm sure no hacking would be involved. In fact, I bet there are methods of upgrading your device that uses software supplied by Microsoft.

I know which way I will go.

[ParrotHead_FL]

It recently made the news that most customers have no loyalty to their wireless carriers; they tend to jump ship the minute their contracts expire.

Wireless carriers will complain about this churn and the cost associated with it, but what do they do to prevent it? Do they convey the message that they appreciate their customers and want them to stick around for the long haul? Do they take specific, effective actions to try to engender customer loyalty?

The discussion at hand is a prime example of why churn is so high. AT&T's handling of Windows Phone updates has conveyed the message that AT&T doesn't care about its customers or the quality of their experience with the company. Not only are they denying customers updates that will fix genuine problems with their phones, but their communication about the matter was terrible. As in, non-existent. That poor communication is the true unforgivable sin, especially in the Internet age when communication is so easy.

These are textbook examples of poor customer service. Any junior in business school could write an HBR case about them. And yet--amazingly--some executives in AT&T are paid very good money to continue to make them. It boggles the mind.

[chrislynch06]

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row5is wrote:

 As for worrying about not getting any possible future updates, well as we've already determined, AT&T will not be delivering any future updates.

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You are missing the point here.  We are talking about existing patches, and future software updates in general to all Windows Phone devices.  If AT&T were never to release Tango (aka Windows Phone 7.5 Refresh), we as customers should be made aware of this.  If there were software updates post the HTC Titain II and Nokia Lumia 900, AT&T should tell it's customers whether or not they will approve the release of that update.  So, I don't want AT&T to just think "oh, they folks just want to know about this 8107 update, and that's all we have to do."  No, I want to know AT&T plans on approving updates that Microsoft has created (whether it's a patch or new OS update that has newer features) period.

[chrislynch06]

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ParrotHead_FL wrote:

It recently made the news that most customers have no loyalty to their wireless carriers; they tend to jump ship the minute their contracts expire.

Wireless carriers will complain about this churn and the cost associated with it, but what do they do to prevent it? Do they convey the message that they appreciate their customers and want them to stick around for the long haul? Do they take specific, effective actions to try to engender customer loyalty?

The discussion at hand is a prime example of why churn is so high. AT&T's handling of Windows Phone updates has conveyed the message that AT&T doesn't care about its customers or the quality of their experience with the company. Not only are they denying customers updates that will fix genuine problems with their phones, but their communication about the matter was terrible. As in, non-existent. That poor communication is the true unforgivable sin, especially in the Internet age when communication is so easy.

These are textbook examples of poor customer service. Any junior in business school could write an HBR case about them. And yet--amazingly--some executives in AT&T are paid very good money to continue to make them. It boggles the mind.

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I couldn't agree with you more!

[JohnsonsPlace]

Trying one more thing....have written to my local Fox TV station to see if they can help in at lease getting us a reason. I don't hold out much hope.

[row5is]

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chrislynch06 wrote:

You are missing the point here.  We are talking about existing patches, and future software updates in general to all Windows Phone devices.  If AT&T were never to release Tango (aka Windows Phone 7.5 Refresh), we as customers should be made aware of this. 

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But they have made you aware, they said they would not be delivering 8107 and since all updates are cumulative, then they will not be delivering tango or any other update to exising phones. They have said, in effect, that they will not be supporting any Windows Phone that exists today. Personally I find that despicable, but now we all know what kind of support AT&T will give - and it ain't much.

[chrislynch06]

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row5is wrote:

But they have made you aware, they said they would not be delivering 8107 and since all updates are cumulative, then they will not be delivering tango or any other update to exising phones. They have said, in effect, that they will not be supporting any Windows Phone that exists today. Personally I find that despicable, but now we all know what kind of support AT&T will give - and it ain't much.

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Other than speculation of the existing devices going OEL, AT&T has not come out and said they will not continue to support our devices.  I'm also worried that if I buy a Lumia 900, they might also not support that either with future updates.  This is a huge mess Microsoft has allowed, and now Nokia is going to feel it too.  This isn't good for customers.

[coffeemike]

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row5is wrote:

But they have made you aware, they said they would not be delivering 8107 and since all updates are cumulative, then they will not be delivering tango or any other update to exising phones. They have said, in effect, that they will not be supporting any Windows Phone that exists today. Personally I find that despicable, but now we all know what kind of support AT&T will give - and it ain't much.

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I think you're reading that too far. AT&T's decision not to release 8107 is a decision not to release the current patch to version 8107, not to never release any future patch because it's cumulative. While nothing is impossible at this point, I can't believe that AT&T will never relase any future upates to WP.

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chrislynch06 wrote:

Other than speculation of the existing devices going OEL, AT&T has not come out and said they will not continue to support our devices.  I'm also worried that if I buy a Lumia 900, they might also not support that either with future updates.  This is a huge mess Microsoft has allowed, and now Nokia is going to feel it too.  This isn't good for customers.

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Exactly! I've been waiting (im)patiently for the Lumia 900 to drop. Now, I'm excited, but I have zero confidence that AT&T will do anything to support that device going forward. No information.