Re: Windows Mobile 6 Discussion

Klub123 · ‎07-30-2007

wow...

djmv · ‎09-24-2007

Now, As to the news of the 750 having a WM6 but it's only on phones for corporate customers. Hmmm, that REALLY proves that either:
1) Corporate customers are not cared about as much as regular customers (meaning that AT&T has a bugging ROM they do not want released to regular customers, but could care less about corporate people having issues)
2) Regular customers don't mean jack and don't deserve this upgrade

Here is a thought. Corporate users generally have a staff of professional (regardless of skill level, still professional) people administering the phones. For them, there is less risk in giving them a phone with a release of WM6 that may need to be patched down the road. If they sold them WM5, they would still have to be upgraded. In that scenario, you either give them WM5 and garuntee the need for an upgrade or give them WM6 and take the risk that if there version actually does end up having bugs, they may be related to software those people aren't using anyway. Remember, these are sold to corporate users to work with a corporate windows environment that can push out software and even remove data or wipe your phone over the air, a very controlled environment.

As for people that already have WM5, bandwidth is not cheap. Why have every customer pull copies of the download twice, when you can wait and let them pull it once. Also, individuals customize their phones and use a much wider array of software, even software that is obviously not supported (evident in this thread). The risk is also higher of an end user bricking their phone, so why double that risk by releasing a bad ROM and a subsequent patch?

Believe me, I am tired of refreshing 5 forums in firefox all day long, and I think the communication has been pitiful at best. Regardless of what the delay is, there should be communication of some sort. Th people who rally care are in the forums, so maybe they should be using moderators to help keep people informed, but they don't. Sentry can only relay what he is told, and his job is not to communicate release info. Don't expect him to provide new info (though he appears to be trying to learn and pass on what he can), only expect him to perform the role of moderator. In the current role, moderator almost seems to be a legal function to limit liability on the part of ATT.

Drew120 · ‎06-07-2007

Are new blackjack phones shipping with WM6 or WM5 on them?

paulfuchs · ‎10-27-2007

I have been lurking here for a while and until now, everyone had been saying the frustration that I felt, over and over.

When I saw the link to the palm business site on message #1292 I went there and decided to call the number. I had to leave a message but i was called back 20 min later. The rep that business basically meant 10 or more units and so he couldn't help me directly but he was willing to discuss the deployment of the ATT version of WM6 for the 750. He had at least 6 clients with large numbers of phones who had gone through a "non-disclosure process that went all the way up to the VP level for approval" who had been supplied with the final version of the update for their ATT 750's in the past month. I had to lead him to the site linked in the earlier formum message and when he saw it was quite surprised. He said that he would look into it and call me back if he could find anything out.

I don't know any other way to verify that I had this conversation other than to paraphrase and quote it, but it did happen.

It would seem that if ATT wanted us to have this update right now, we would have it. I think that.....(add your own prohibitted phrase)

MobileMan · ‎02-08-2007

Sentry wrote:
...The reasoning behind the decision to have all topics on WM6 for the Treo and Samsung devices locked and linked to here is very basic. Some claim that we're trying to hide this issue so it doesn't get exposure, but that is quite the opposite. Even at thousands of messages, are largest WM6 threads earlier this year dwarf this one and they remain in the individual device boards where several have referred to as 'out in the open.' Does a single thread like this one make any difference? Being that it is still accessible to our management and it is a pure representative of the collective customer opinion on WM6, it makes a much more distinct impression than a dozen five post threads complaining about it not being out yet and re-asking the same questions ad nauseum. I find this thread, despite its twists and turns, to be a valid congregation of the general consensus of our customer base within regards to this issue and it is accessible to the people who, as a customer, you would want to have read it the most!

Look, I wouldn't want to be in Sentry's shoes for a million bucks. He is trying to make a living like everyone else. His employer has put him in a most difficult position and he is doing a great job trying to keep order. I would have banned a lot of guys already including myself. So I applaud him for keeping his cool. Let's continue to at least be civil.

With that said I believe that the ATT customers have the right to ask the hard questions. They have absolutely been strung along and treated incredibly unfairly. Almost no other company out there could get away with this lack of communication and delivery to their customers. But we want their network and we like their phones. So what are we gonna do. Wait.

Here is what I have never seen an answer to from Sentry or any other mods. I understand your need to combine the forums so that you can keep a handle on them. I understand your decisions to censor certain things including PMs. But you have not told us why you decided to put this thread, and only this thread, into a password protected area unlike any other threads on the board. I would like you to directly address the assumption that it was done this way so that the general searching public would have no way of finding it in casual search engine queries. Other ATT forum threads show up in Google and Yahoo. But this one does not. Again, we are just looking for a little honesty here. So far we have not received that.

MickeyPhelps · ‎01-15-2007

MobileMan wrote:

Sentry wrote:
...The reasoning behind the decision to have all topics on WM6 for the Treo and Samsung devices locked and linked to here is very basic. Some claim that we're trying to hide this issue so it doesn't get exposure, but that is quite the opposite. Even at thousands of messages, are largest WM6 threads earlier this year dwarf this one and they remain in the individual device boards where several have referred to as 'out in the open.' Does a single thread like this one make any difference? Being that it is still accessible to our management and it is a pure representative of the collective customer opinion on WM6, it makes a much more distinct impression than a dozen five post threads complaining about it not being out yet and re-asking the same questions ad nauseum. I find this thread, despite its twists and turns, to be a valid congregation of the general consensus of our customer base within regards to this issue and it is accessible to the people who, as a customer, you would want to have read it the most!
Look, I wouldn't want to be in Sentry's shoes for a million bucks. He is trying to make a living like everyone else. His employer has put him in a most difficult position and he is doing a great job trying to keep order. I would have banned a lot of guys already including myself. So I applaud him for keeping his cool. Let's continue to at least be civil.

With that said I believe that the ATT customers have the right to ask the hard questions. They have absolutely been strung along and treated incredibly unfairly. Almost no other company out there could get away with this lack of communication and delivery to their customers. But we want their network and we like their phones. So what are we gonna do. Wait.

Here is what I have never seen an answer to from Sentry or any other mods. I understand your need to combine the forums so that you can keep a handle on them. I understand your decisions to censor certain things including PMs. But you have not told us why you decided to put this thread, and only this thread, into a password protected area unlike any other threads on the board. I would like you to directly address the assumption that it was done this way so that the general searching public would have no way of finding it in casual search engine queries. Other ATT forum threads show up in Google and Yahoo. But this one does not. Again, we are just looking for a little honesty here. So far we have not received that.

I agree that Sentry has done a great job with what he was given - but please... do you really expect the truth based on everything else that you've read here? If Sentry's bosses tell him to tell you that its because of some other lame-o reason, that's what he'll say. We all know why its done this way - you're just giving Sentry more ulcers by making him tow the company line.

cincinnati1020 · ‎06-07-2007

Sentry wrote:

cincinnati1020 wrote:

You know what is hillarious? My Post was censored. I never once talked about any ROM, nor did the person who I was replying to. All I said was that I would use a certain search engine to look for other forums to discuss WM6/AT&T. I have never even considered using any illegal ROM, just because I don't have enough technical knowledge to even try it. So for a moderator to censor my post for supposedly suggestig people use "ILLEGAL" software is crazy.

And as far as AT&T and people posting on this thread to just be patient, IS THERE SOMETHING ACTUALLY WRONG WITH YOUR PHONE, or do you just think phones should be pretty? Believe me I don't want WM6 for any aesthetic reason, with plugins I have managed to get my today screen to look exactly as I want it. I want WM6 update, because since I purchhased the Treo 750 it drops the SD card at very inconvenient times. I have been told by ATT for MONTHS that WM6 will be out soon to fix my problem. If ATT pland to keep delaying the release of WM6, then they could at least have the decency to release a fix for SD card problems. I paid hundreds of dollars for this phone, shouldn't it work right?
Sorry to hear about the issues with your device and feel free to take advantage of our other options for repair or replacement of your phone by placing a call Customer Care at 1-800-331-0500 (or 611 from your wireless handset). We apologize about your situation and the lack of WM6 support in your time of need. Hopefully the issues will find a healthy resolution in the near future one way or the other.

Concerning my editing of MobileMan's post, the bottom line is that the suggestion to Google other forums directly led to locations where the unofficial and pirated software was being hosted. I can't moderate by intent in this instance, only by effects and results...

If one of our customers is doing a search for WM6 in the tutorial portion of our website and selects a link leading to this forum discussion, only to find MobileMan's suggestion (regardless of his intent). Then they are compelled to do the search, find the link to the ROM, download it in a way which permanently disables their device, they're not going to be knocking on MobileMan's door. They're going to be knocking on AT&T's door, demanding to know why a suggestion from a member on our site led them to a link which destroyed their equipment which may be out of warranty. Then someone will be knocking on my door and questioning how we handle the forum. The editing of your post was done not to insult you or MobileMan but to prevent issues which AT&T would face if a link, a suggestion to search or any other directions were offered on how to get their hands on software which could potentially harm their device.

To everyone:

The reasoning behind the decision to have all topics on WM6 for the Treo and Samsung devices locked and linked to here is very basic. Some claim that we're trying to hide this issue so it doesn't get exposure, but that is quite the opposite. Even at thousands of messages, are largest WM6 threads earlier this year dwarf this one and they remain in the individual device boards where several have referred to as 'out in the open.' Does a single thread like this one make any difference? Being that it is still accessible to our management and it is a pure representative of the collective customer opinion on WM6, it makes a much more distinct impression than a dozen five post threads complaining about it not being out yet and re-asking the same questions ad nauseum. I find this thread, despite its twists and turns, to be a valid congregation of the general consensus of our customer base within regards to this issue and it is accessible to the people who, as a customer, you would want to have read it the most!

Furthermore, and let me be clear about this: We've never banned individuals for having this software on their devices. We're not moderating your individual life choices or moral code. We will, however, ban you for promoting it by suggesting to do a search which results in an end user finding the software, whether by PM or in the public viewing of the forum. All I've asked regarding this is that you follow that rule, something which has disappointingly not been followed. We also have members of the forum which are 13 years of age and certain words, images and conversation must be muted for that very reason.

In the end, as much as I understand the individual want and/or need of this software for each and every one of you, magnify that a five hundred-fold and you'll get a general idea about how much I would personally like the software to come out - and I have no plans on personally using it myself. Making decisions within regards to moderating this topic has been increasingly difficult and trying over the past ten months. I don't control the release of the software anymore than the customers, but I handle the brunt of everyone's complaint at arms length and get the raw enjoyment of seeing my avatar name besmudged and insulted on other websites throughout the internet. So for those who've been cordial and kind, I appreciate it and I formally appreciate everyone's patience regardless of your temperament.

I think you are misunderstanding something I said. I was not talking about the censorship of Mobile's post. I was upset with the fact that MY post was censored. No link was mentioned in either post, in fact no ROM was mentioned at all. I think it is preposterous that now AT&T is censoring not only words and content, but intent, and what is in the mind of the poster LOL Ah, what I would give to have your mind reading skills

As far as censoring based on effects or consequences, are you saying that using search engines has a bad effect?! Wow, don't tell Al Gore that. I think it is safe for you to assume that anyone that has the mental capacity to read and write in this forum, is well aware of the most popular search engine, and would use it if they choose to. I doubt Mobileman's suggestion to use it had any influence on their lives, thus caused no effect or consequence. To suggest that his mentioning a search engine could bring ATT problems makes no sense. Do you honestly believe that ANYONE would call ATT and say i want a new phone somneone in your forum suggested I use a search engine? ! LOL

As far as your suggestions to have my phone repaired or replaced. I have had 3 Treo's already in an attempt to find one that worked. SD card dropping is a known Treo 750 issue which you may not be aware of. There is no available fix for it.

GRay166 · ‎08-23-2004

What is the carosel theme thingey thats supposed to be in WM6?

Klub123 · ‎07-30-2007

ok im not 100% sure here but have you ever used a Mac? well if so you know how th ebottom of the screen has all the programs you can chose and you just move over them i think it may have somthign to do with cause i saw some screen shots of a guy with a mac homescreen on his blackjack...maybe? or was it a more like vista screen where you can scroll through your open windows oh i cant remember sorry...

Message Edited by Klub123 on 11-08-2007 10:30:24 AM

GRay166 · ‎08-23-2004

Klub123 wrote:
ok im not 100% sure here but have you ever used a Mac? well if so you know how th ebottom of the screen has all the programs you can chose and you just move over them i think it may have somthign to do with cause i saw some screen shots of a guy with a mac homescreen on his blackjack...maybe? or was it a more like vista screen where you can scroll through your open windows oh i cant remember sorry...

Message Edited by Klub123 on 11-08-2007 10:30:24 AM

So its just the default homescreen with the program shortcuts on the top?

yrean · ‎11-04-2007

i check in here every now and then just to see if wm6 released yet. its only what a year late? by the time its released i wonder if id still be under contract.

just plain garbage att.

RxExpress · ‎09-19-2007

GRay166 wrote:
What is the carosel theme thingey thats supposed to be in WM6?

Its nothing like a mac or vista lol. maybe a little like the quick switcher in them, but its more like cards with specific things on them, like messages, apps, folders, etc.

http://smartyphones.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/samsung_sgh-i600_home_screen_plug-in3.jpg

acharn · ‎10-03-2007

i have become enthralled in this wm6 discussion, originally because i wanted the software, but now because at&t is doing such a poor job communicating with its existing customers over this release. they are really showing an I DON'T CARE attitude towards all of the customers who are asking for the upgrade.

where is it?

what's the status?

when do we expect to get it?

SOON is not good enough. i doubt that at&t's reputation in my mind will be altered one bit, even when they post the upgrade. at&t is too big for its britches right now. they think they are the only game in town, but t-mob and veri are calling. maybe even sprin-t.

can you hear us now?

MickeyPhelps · ‎01-15-2007

acharn wrote:
i have become enthralled in this wm6 discussion, originally because i wanted the software, but now because at&t is doing such a poor job communicating with its existing customers over this release. they are really showing an I DON'T CARE attitude towards all of the customers who are asking for the upgrade.

where is it?

what's the status?

when do we expect to get it?

SOON is not good enough. i doubt that at&t's reputation in my mind will be altered one bit, even when they post the upgrade. at&t is too big for its britches right now. they think they are the only game in town, but t-mob and veri are calling. maybe even sprin-t.

can you hear us now?

The ecoustical properties of one's colon may make "hearing us" a virtual imposibility for ATT's higher ups.

Disclaimer: I don't think I violated the guidelines here - if I did, I apologize in advance. This was purely for entertainment purposes...

futbolkeeper · ‎03-15-2007

MickeyPhelps wrote:

acharn wrote:
i have become enthralled in this wm6 discussion, originally because i wanted the software, but now because at&t is doing such a poor job communicating with its existing customers over this release. they are really showing an I DON'T CARE attitude towards all of the customers who are asking for the upgrade.

where is it?

what's the status?

when do we expect to get it?

SOON is not good enough. i doubt that at&t's reputation in my mind will be altered one bit, even when they post the upgrade. at&t is too big for its britches right now. they think they are the only game in town, but t-mob and veri are calling. maybe even sprin-t.

can you hear us now?

The ecoustical properties of one's colon may make "hearing us" a virtual imposibility for ATT's higher ups.

Disclaimer: I don't think I violated the guidelines here - if I did, I apologize in advance. This was purely for entertainment purposes...

That was perfectly put. And I think the kidney's maybe covering their ears!

Parsonsbri · ‎02-10-2003

MickeyPhelps wrote:

acharn wrote:
i have become enthralled in this wm6 discussion, originally because i wanted the software, but now because at&t is doing such a poor job communicating with its existing customers over this release. they are really showing an I DON'T CARE attitude towards all of the customers who are asking for the upgrade.

where is it?

what's the status?

when do we expect to get it?

SOON is not good enough. i doubt that at&t's reputation in my mind will be altered one bit, even when they post the upgrade. at&t is too big for its britches right now. they think they are the only game in town, but t-mob and veri are calling. maybe even sprin-t.

can you hear us now?

The ecoustical properties of one's colon may make "hearing us" a virtual imposibility for ATT's higher ups.

Disclaimer: I don't think I violated the guidelines here - if I did, I apologize in advance. This was purely for entertainment purposes...

Ahhh, the dread rectal cranium inversion syndrome. Happens all the time a the senior management level. This is the worst case I have seen.

ShaneJ77 · ‎08-09-2007

Parsonsbri wrote:

MickeyPhelps wrote:

acharn wrote:
i have become enthralled in this wm6 discussion, originally because i wanted the software, but now because at&t is doing such a poor job communicating with its existing customers over this release. they are really showing an I DON'T CARE attitude towards all of the customers who are asking for the upgrade.

where is it?

what's the status?

when do we expect to get it?

SOON is not good enough. i doubt that at&t's reputation in my mind will be altered one bit, even when they post the upgrade. at&t is too big for its britches right now. they think they are the only game in town, but t-mob and veri are calling. maybe even sprin-t.

can you hear us now?

The ecoustical properties of one's colon may make "hearing us" a virtual imposibility for ATT's higher ups.

Disclaimer: I don't think I violated the guidelines here - if I did, I apologize in advance. This was purely for entertainment purposes...

Ahhh, the dread rectal cranium inversion syndrome. Happens all the time a the senior management level. This is the worst case I have seen.

At least it's not the flightless avian with elongated neck burrying their crainial region into the earth syndrom.

grigolla · ‎03-30-2004

Just when I thought I was a geek!

jotjen · ‎10-29-2007

What a joke this entire WM6 deal is. ATT is full of it and saying we have not information is just plain bad customer service. Giving out three release dates and missing all of them. I find it funny that they choose to stick with this line that they don't have any updates.

It would be great if they could just be candid and honest to their customers.

Parsonsbri · ‎02-10-2003

ShaneJ77 wrote:

Parsonsbri wrote:

Ahhh, the dread rectal cranium inversion syndrome. Happens all the time a the senior management level. This is the worst case I have seen.

At least it's not the flightless avian with elongated neck burrying their crainial region into the earth syndrom.

you mean "Struthio Camelus sub-terra cranium syndrome"? Could be both. How tragic. Virtually incurable without euthanasia.

Simon Templar · ‎10-30-2007

cincinnati1020 wrote:

I think you are misunderstanding something I said. I was not talking about the censorship of Mobile's post. I was upset with the fact that MY post was censored. No link was mentioned in either post, in fact no ROM was mentioned at all. I think it is preposterous that now AT&T is censoring not only words and content, but intent, and what is in the mind of the poster LOL Ah, what I would give to have your mind reading skills As far as censoring based on effects or consequences, are you saying that using search engines has a bad effect?! Wow, don't tell Al Gore that. I think it is safe for you to assume that anyone that has the mental capacity to read and write in this forum, is well aware of the most popular search engine, and would use it if they choose to. I doubt Mobileman's suggestion to use it had any influence on their lives, thus caused no effect or consequence. To suggest that his mentioning a search engine could bring ATT problems makes no sense. Do you honestly believe that ANYONE would call ATT and say i want a new phone somneone in your forum suggested I use a search engine? ! LOL

As far as your suggestions to have my phone repaired or replaced. I have had 3 Treo's already in an attempt to find one that worked. SD card dropping is a known Treo 750 issue which you may not be aware of. There is no available fix for it.

You don't seem to understand the fact he wasn't censoring anything YOU wrote. You quoted something that shouldn't have been posted. So not only did he have to edit the original post, but your post as well because it contained the prohibited quote.

Get it now?

jbrickner · ‎10-26-2007

You know... I don't think the issue is with the update anymore. I think the issue is with AT&T's "I don't give a rip" attitide it has with the people who make them money. Their customers. It's OBVIOUS the customers want to hear from AT&T as to the delay in the software release.

I would love to know what the higher up are thinking concerning this issue. Is there no sense of resposiblity to the people that pay their salaries. If I treated my customers this way... I wouldn't have any.

And Sentry... to think that you have no ability to get our message to the upper management. Shame on you. Is your only purpose to edit the posts that get put on this forum. You have the ability to make a difference here. To say something like, "Hey guys... the customers are angry with our lack of response. Can one of you send out an official statement." Don't you care about the company you work for?

driazen · ‎09-12-2007

I think I've finally figured what the delay is. Its the spying software that wont work properly. http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/11/att-whistle-blo.html

belling74 · ‎10-12-2007

How many lawsuits is this for them now?

I wonder if the phrase Class-Action even begins to strike fear into the Senior Managment... probably not.

Welcome back Ma Bell.

Sentry · ‎05-03-2006

jbrickner, I assure you that this thread is no secret.

rwertz14 · ‎08-14-2007

I'll tell you, I feel like I'm on the Titanic and it's time to jump ship like so many others have. We've beat this dead horse enough.

sailingtaz · ‎10-30-2007

rrothkopf wrote:

The question isn't one of technical ability. It's likely one of the following:
- market positioning (this product compared to other products coming to market)
- resource availability for testing (they have a *large* user base.. testing now is key to control support costs later)
- licensing.. may be issues they're working out that we're not aware of

Since the AT&T reps. won't reveal any real reasons (from what I've read) for the delay, I can only imagine it's political and/or related to the marketplace..

*sigh*... ah well.
Cheers,
:-) Rob

I've been saying that for a while. WM6 gold ROM is ready to roll but ATT is holding it off until other WM6 phones are released in the next few months (in addition to those already released.) Businesses don't cannibalize their own new product sales if they can help it, and ATT can help it by not releasing the WM6 ROM for BJ.

Licensing is not an issue as MSFT Entertainment and Devices Division is not a profit generator. Specific to Windows Mobile Group, they generated about $200m in revenue in fiscal year 2007 (itemized WMG revenue is not disclosed in 10-k filings so it's an estimate on growth of $120m from 2006) which is peanuts in EDD revenue let alone MSFT's overall revenue. Besides, MSFT is keen on marketshare over competitors including Nokia, Openwave, Palm, Qualcomm, RIM, and Symbian along with embedded OS competitors like IBM, Wind River, and Metrowerkes. ATT gets WM for next to nothing.

Testing delays? No. It's just quick scripted answer to sidestep the WM6 question.

Message Edited by sailingtaz on 11-08-2007 01:54:38 PM

driazen · ‎09-12-2007

Hey look its another official word comment and a date on the Treonauts site (comment 15)
See my inevidible response.

http://blog.treonauts.com/2007/11/treo-750-update.html

dmspen · ‎02-11-2006

I've been watching and waiting to get the WM6 update for my BJ. I bought the BJ with WM5 and consider the update to be a little icing on the cake, HOWEVER, the way ATT has handled this makes me wonder about the rest of their services. My contract is up in December and it may very well be time to switch. My BJ has been one of the worst phones I've owned for call reception. Oh, sure, I get calls, but they are so often very scratchy and broken. The calls don't drop, but you can hardly understand what people are saying.

So, Verizon? T-Mobile? Landline...

belling74 · ‎10-12-2007

dmspen wrote:

So, Verizon? T-Mobile? Landline...

Tie 2 cups together with a piece of string, your reception and call quality will be about the same, and its a lot cheaper.