Disloyalty from AT&T Wireless

[crypted]

Dearest AT&T:

I want to express my dissatisfaction.  About a month or so back, I contacted Customer Service with the intent to obtain information on upgrading to iPhones.  Our two HTC phones have been problematic for some time.  Other family members on the plan have iPhones and have had zero issues whatsoever. 

I was informed that when I was ready to purchase, we could get a waiver to upgrade at the upgrade pricing even though we were short of the time requirement.  This waiver was for “customer loyalty” and my military service “appreciation.” 

Today, I found out that it won't happen.  Called in and was told there’s no documentation and sorry.  I didn’t realize it was my duty to ensure that someone types up a proper report during the phone call.  I do wonder how we would be able to do that?  Remote desktop?  Doubtful.

Further, I was going to add an extra line for a foreign exchange student who will be arriving in January.  Now, I think Verizon will be obtaining our business once their iPhone is out in Q1 of 2011.

I guess that being an AT&T customer since 1984 (generally, pre-cellphone) and an AT&T/Cingular customer since 2001 (after a merger in our small market) isn’t valuable enough.  Other providers can provide telephone, TV, and other services that we use you for with the entire bundle.  Why throw crap in the faces of loyal customers who pay $350 - $400/monthly?

Sincerely.

A disenchanted subservient customer.

PS:  If an agent would be willing to direct this message to the proper channels for repair, I would be most impressed.

[mightyjeeper]

AT&T doesn't do upgrades for "loyalty". And I'm sorry for your experience. What the representative may have been looking at though, is the fact that you may have one iphone upgrade earlier than your earliest upgrade date at a reduced (less than retail), but at a higher price than the standard upgrade pricing. Dial *NEW# and post what it tells you. I can interpret from there. 

[crypted]

That was discussed.  It was explained that we have until next June before we get the special discounted pricing.  However, the representative explained that if I wanted to do it immediately, because of my continuance yadda yadda she could get that pricing for me.  I thanked her but said I'd need to make sure that's what the family wanted before doing so and that I just wanted to make sure my ducks were in a row.  She said not a problem and just to call back when I was ready.  That's the round about story. 

I couldn't care less if they don't do it for "loyalty" by default, there's no reason why if someone's told something that it won't be documented or offered when the person is indeed ready in a reasonable timeframe.  I said it'd be within a couple of months, and I called within that timeframe so it shouldn't have been dropped or punted. 

Maybe it wouldn't have been punted if the lady would have typed a few extra dang sentences, I don't know. 

[BrianfromNO]

AT&T almost NEVER grants any sort of upgrade exceptions for iPhones....you want an iPhone early, you pay the $200 early upgrade premium to do so.

Oh, and nobody is going to direct this to "the right channels".  AT&T CSRs do not work these forums.  The only AT&T employees here are the moderators, and any AT&T employees posting are doing so in an individual capacity where they don't speak for the company.

[crypted]

Well I thank you for your input.  Funny I never was told about that $200 early upgrade fee you speak of yesterday, during my phone conversation.

So I talked to the 1 in a millionth representative who was being kind a while back, and that person failed to document or it was reneged (bet the last one). 

Jesus can they at least explain the {word filter evasion} situation and tell me legitimate options rather than blowing me around?

Glad also to know, as you say, this won't be given a crap by ATT employees on the forum.  They give no direct channel for inquiry or recourse, fascinating.

I will end up posting it on blogs [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate]....as I read about while Googling how to contact ATT for concerns.

Sad.

[BrianfromNO]

Dude, all the information regarding iPhone pricing is on AT&T and Apple's web sites.  There are 3 tiers of pricing - standard upgrade, early upgrade, and full retail pricing.  You don't need to be spoon-fed this info by CSRs who, quite frankly, aren't terribly well-trained in many cases.

And sorry, but something that an AT&T employee mistakenly tells you doesn't bind AT&T to honor that decision.  

This is a customer-oriented forum, a place where customers can ask other customers for answers regarding their questions and problems.  It's not setup for AT&T CSRs to answer questions.  Reach out to AT&T on their Facebook page or via one of their Twitter feeds if you want interactivity with AT&T CSRs.

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

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BrianfromNO wrote:

Dude, all the information regarding iPhone pricing is on AT&T and Apple's web sites.  There are 3 tiers of pricing - standard upgrade, early upgrade, and full retail pricing.  You don't need to be spoon-fed this info by CSRs who, quite frankly, aren't terribly well-trained in many cases.

And sorry, but something that an AT&T employee mistakenly tells you doesn't bind AT&T to honor that decision.  

This is a customer-oriented forum, a place where customers can ask other customers for answers regarding their questions and problems.  It's not setup for AT&T CSRs to answer questions.  Reach out to AT&T on their Facebook page or via one of their Twitter feeds if you want interactivity with AT&T CSRs.

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it is also not "disloyality" from att to hold you to the legally binding contract your agreed to when you took the service out.

[crypted]

The legalese of the contract is namely bowlerplate and they, ATT, have not held themselves to the standards of the contract both expressed and implied.  So, the contract isn't a seller to say ATT is in the right and that they are free to do as they wish.

[drumn_bass]

I believe everything you're telling us, but the problem is for every one person (like yourself) who were honestly told (and unfortunately misinformed) something by the rep, there are ten people who will lie to get something from AT&T. AT&T doesn't get those phones for free you know, and they can't and don't allow early upgrades with full discount for no reason and no documentation (problems with a curent device can and should be resolved by the warranty).  

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

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crypted wrote:

The legalese of the contract is namely bowlerplate and they, ATT, have not held themselves to the standards of the contract both expressed and implied.  So, the contract isn't a seller to say ATT is in the right and that they are free to do as they wish.

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then talk to a lwyer if you believe that.

sorry I stand on the comment that it is not and will never be "disloyality" Try canceling without paying the etf and see how fast their "boilerplate contract" comes into play

written contract and terms of service trump cs verbal comments

[crypted]

I never said that a written contract could be trumpted by verbal information nor would I ever suggest that.  I stated that a discussion wasn't documented and I wanted to nkow if there were avenues for obtaining an offer if the agent failed to mark it down whether or not the agent was stating something legitimately or just trying to make a customer "happy" without action. 

Boilerplate means a bunch of standard lanaguage that tend to be a bunch of words that many courts will ignore.  Further, all contracts will be read as against the creator when discrepencies arise.  But, that again means expressed language and not a verbal discussion later on...

Now, I do agree that the other comment made was correct...people will claim crap to get ahead.  That's annoying and unfortuante for the rest of us, but it's part of capitalism.  I know ATT pays for the phones. 

NOTE:  Today I learned that somehow the computer "recalculated automatically" the months between our upgrades.  I cannot get an explanation why it changed and the supervisor was less than helpful with that.  She couldn't explain why two lines require 24 months between upgrades, one requires 18 months, and one requires 16 months.  Originally (through 2009 and early 2010) each line was at a 12 month window.  Fascinating.

[BrianfromNO]

No, there are no avenues via which to escalate the discussion.  Since there is no record that the discussion ever took place, there is nothing you can do.

Clearly you haven't read the WSA, in which you agree to subject yourself to binding arbitration rather than trying to gain legal remedy in court.  Regardless, there is no discrepancy, and I'm not sure why you continue to argue the point.  If your existing phones are problematic, you can go through the warranty exchange system to get the phones replaced.  If you have the same model of phone replaced multiple times, you can request to have a comparable phone substituted for it.  One phone you won't be able to get in this manner is an iPhone.

As far as how the upgrade dates of lines are calculated, the primary line on an account will almost always get the earliest upgrade in a plan.  That's because the lion's share of the account revenue is recorded against the primary phone.  Changes in your rate plan can change eligibility, as I believe the use of early upgrades can, too.  I believe you can ask to have the upgrade date reviewed to see if it can possibly be reset if you believe the date is wrong.  Checking the upgrade status on an account repeatedly in a short period of time can allegedly throw the upgrade date off, although I'm not entirely sure if that's true.

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crypted wrote:

I never said that a written contract could be trumpted by verbal information nor would I ever suggest that.  I stated that a discussion wasn't documented and I wanted to nkow if there were avenues for obtaining an offer if the agent failed to mark it down whether or not the agent was stating something legitimately or just trying to make a customer "happy" without action. 

Boilerplate means a bunch of standard lanaguage that tend to be a bunch of words that many courts will ignore.  Further, all contracts will be read as against the creator when discrepencies arise.  But, that again means expressed language and not a verbal discussion later on...

Now, I do agree that the other comment made was correct...people will claim crap to get ahead.  That's annoying and unfortuante for the rest of us, but it's part of capitalism.  I know ATT pays for the phones. 

NOTE:  Today I learned that somehow the computer "recalculated automatically" the months between our upgrades.  I cannot get an explanation why it changed and the supervisor was less than helpful with that.  She couldn't explain why two lines require 24 months between upgrades, one requires 18 months, and one requires 16 months.  Originally (through 2009 and early 2010) each line was at a 12 month window.  Fascinating.

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[crypted]

Arbitration is in every contract and in almost every jurisdiction finds itself accepted as worthless when it involves petty consumers against a mightyly large corporation.  But, who knew you are so knowledgable on the affairs of the legal system.

Not arguing the point further...I agreed with some peoples commentary in my last post, disputed others...and then added smoe information that I was passed by a supervisor.  Hardly that is demanding of retribution is it?

ATT is lucky to have a customer, assuming that's what you are, so loyal and so entrenched in upholding their every move no matter.  I commend you.

[UNSC_REACH]

Exceptions on iPhone upgrades seems to be the only thing ATT wont budge on, no matter what department you call.

Keep in mind, the iPhone is the only phone that you can do an early upgrade on at almost any time during your contract. Otherwise, you'd be out luck unless you got an exception. I think thats a good enough deal, since Apple probably charges ATT like $800 a phone.

[BrianfromNO]

Are you stating this from direct knowledge of having challenged arbitration & contracts in court, or did you cobble this together from the Google College Law Library?

You can talk fantasy, and then we can talk reality.  Unless you ARE an attorney, or have a buddy willing to take on the filing pro bono, it'll cost you money to challenge ANYTHING in court (that is, unless you're crazy enough to not be an attorney and attempt to fight the situation in court).

I can also tell you what would have happened had you jumped on the proffered deal immediately.  The CSR would have gotten about halfway through it, wouldn't be able to complete the transaction, and then would have called a supervisor/manager over, who would have informed her that she couldn't complete the deal because she lacked the authority to make the deal.  Then you'd be in here complaining about how the mouth of some CSR wrote a check that the rest of her couldn't cash, and how AT&T should honor every & all deals that their CSRs cut, yadda yadda.

The bottom line is this....you aren't going to get what you want.  There are some things CSRs can do, and others they cannot.  I've been through similar situations, and when weighing whether I wanted to change carriers decided the pain of leaving didn't outweigh the benefits of switching.  If Verizon gets an iPhone I may reconsider when my contract is close to being up, but I do happen to really like simultaneous voice and data.

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crypted wrote:

Arbitration is in every contract and in almost every jurisdiction finds itself accepted as worthless when it involves petty consumers against a mightyly large corporation.  But, who knew you are so knowledgable on the affairs of the legal system.

Not arguing the point further...I agreed with some peoples commentary in my last post, disputed others...and then added smoe information that I was passed by a supervisor.  Hardly that is demanding of retribution is it?

ATT is lucky to have a customer, assuming that's what you are, so loyal and so entrenched in upholding their every move no matter.  I commend you.

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[UNSC_REACH]

Brian, I agree. Kudos

[crypted]

After having accurate information proffered by ATT, I am of like mind.  Again, it's an issue of different figures and explanations.  A proper CRM program would give proper and constant figures to employees at ATT so that figures weren't pulled out of a hat...seemingly at least. 

My employ doesn't matter.  However, the $600 for canceling all contractual lines vs what $600 for an iPhone vs $1000 for pro se litigation dictates that the latter isn't worth it unless it's on principle. 

I tend to do such work on principle for others, but not for myself...

We have been an ATT customer since 1984 (if buyouts of SWBELL are included) and we've been a wireless customer since the mid 1990's if the two absorptions of a local provider to Cingular and then Cingular to ATT would be worth noting.  So, experience with any other provider for ANY services (phone, TV, internet, cell) is needless to say, limited.  One exception:  Sprint Nextel accounts setup on another continent for easy communication to me in the USA without added cost to others.

As you've alluded to, there's nothing left to say.  Loyalty is nothing and resistance in the wake of misinformation is futile.

[UNSC_REACH]

Unfortunatly that is the answer.

Well, I hope everything works out for the best - at least the best its gonna get.